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[sulfur]

http://www.autoblog....34000233061415/

No. That’s the conclusion of Joe White, Detroit Bureau Chief for The Wall Street Journal, who looked into buying a Prius for his own daily driver. White was interviewed on NPR’s Morning Edition September 30. (Audio here)

White first looked at trading in his Subaru for a Prius, and found that at roughly $3 per gallon for gas, he wouldn’t recover his financing costs. Joe figured that at his annual mileage, he’d save about $746 a year in fuel costs, but it would take too long to recover the  premium he’d pay for the hybrid.

Next he looked at the hypothetical situation of someone without a car looking to buy either a Honda Civic or the Prius. In this case, the fuel savings were roughly $506 per year, versus a purchase price difference of about $8,000. Without even considering cost-of-money issues, it would take nearly 16 years just to break even.

With the current tax deduction of $2,000 converting to a $2,000 tax credit January 1, which decreases every year thereafter, the government subsidies don’t make the switch economically feasible, either.

The bottom line? Unless gas prices go a lot higher, or the government increases hybrid subsidies, or both, buying a hybrid probably won’t save you money. Of course, there are the intangible but real benefits of reducing your personal environmental impact, but then you have to ask yourself if you’re really getting the biggest bang for your environmental investment.

^ = interesting read. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[EverestX]

I think that is totally correct.  We are getting raped either way, expensive gas vs expensive car... You cant win..  I find it funny that everyone thinks by us not using as much gas it will make the world a better place. If everyone had a hybrid the price of gas would be about 7x as high because you get so much more milage..  We cant win..

There is only one thing that America and the rest of the world can do now.  Destroy 3rd world countries, and reduce oil prices, or let them continue to get rich off us..  I say we take it.  But then again tree huggers and shit want to cry like emo kids when you say things like that..

[Rylinkus]

I highly doubt prices would be raised simply due to MPG going up. I think there are several issues with the hybrids ATM. The initial costs are hard to counteract at this point in time. (Maybe if gas prices go up enough) Add to that the current prices of labor and parts on your average hybrid, assuming you can even find someone local to work on it. And since none of them have been out for any extended periods of time it's hard to gauge reliability.

But it would be in the oil industries interest. Oil will be consumed either way. If cars get better MPG more people will be capable of affording driving. Which means more miles on cars. Which equates to more oil changes. More oil used in lubrication of machine that build cars, car parts, etc. It's a good thing across the board.

[deacon187]

well from what i heard you only get a tax deduction the first year you own a hybrid, after that, no more tax deduction, anyone got a clue on what the trade in value of these hybrids is

i dont plan on keeping a car more than 8 years, ill never get my monnies worth unless the resale is decent

[jesterrace777]

I concur that the additional cost of hybrids is rediculous.  You could get a late model honda or toyota 4door for significantly less and still get around 30MPG (for the compact sedans).  As mentioned we have no clue what the implications are of the maintenence on them over the long term.

[Hercules Q Einstein]

QUOTE(EverestX @ Oct 3 2005, 08:22 PM)

I think that is totally correct.  We are getting raped either way, expensive gas vs expensive car... You cant win..  I find it funny that everyone thinks by us not using as much gas it will make the world a better place. If everyone had a hybrid the price of gas would be about 7x as high because you get so much more milage..  We cant win..

[EverestX]

QUOTE(Hercules Q Einstein @ Oct 4 2005, 11:36 AM)

Gas prices wouldnt go up. If people dont buy something the prices go down, not up. Do you understand supply and demand? However we would have alot less gas stations, since it wouldnt be as big of an industry.

[Rylinkus]

QUOTE(EverestX @ Oct 4 2005, 05:51 PM)

Ha, you think that..  Ever look at the gas prices they pay in countries where gas milage is 30mpg minimum.  Gas prices wont ever go back "down"  Maybe a few cents but we wont see $1 a gallon ever again.

[Hercules Q Einstein]

QUOTE(Rylinkus @ Oct 4 2005, 10:56 PM)

It scares me what some people believe. Other countries pay more on gas for several reasons. Some of them don't have the economic power the US has and the oil refineries to turn oil they get into gas. Others have huge taxes on the gas to help encourage public transit.

[Psykomantis00]

QUOTE(EverestX @ Oct 4 2005, 05:51 PM)

Ha, you think that..  Ever look at the gas prices they pay in countries where gas milage is 30mpg minimum.  Gas prices wont ever go back "down"  Maybe a few cents but we wont see $1 a gallon ever again.

[thewickedjester]

QUOTE

As for hybrids saving money. Yes, they do.

Did you not read the article posted? It states that on average, the increased price difference between a hybrid and a regular car is so great that the money you save on gas wouldnt even break even (as far as the price of the car goes) for a long time.

If the price of a hybrid goes down substantially, or if you drive a LOT in it, then the price would break even much quicker, or even save money right off the bat.

Your talking about spending money in one large sum, or just spend it on gas over a period of time. Either way, most people would get rid of the car before this happened.

QUOTE

You dont know how the maintnance is on any new car, so what makes you think its going to be bad?

It may not be bad, but usually, when  a new product is released, it has bugs and need to be worked on more frequently. I agree, Toyota and Honda have very reliable cars, and my Grandmothers Prius has yet to have any problems.

QUOTE

Gas prices arent high enough to stop me from wanting to have fun with any car I get.

Amen.

[Psykomantis00]

QUOTE(thewickedjester @ Oct 5 2005, 03:46 PM)

Did you not read the article posted? It states that on average, the increased price difference between a hybrid and a regular car is so great that the money you save on gas wouldnt even break even (as far as the price of the car goes) for a long time.

[thewickedjester]

QUOTE

Now how are you not saving money?

Because your comparing two different cars with two different price points. Sure an Insight is about the same as an Accord, but what about the Civic and its Hybrid brother (sister, whatever). What is the difference between these two? (I acctually dont know, if it is a rather close price then I stand corrected and openly admit so)

And yes, I dont disagree with people just because I dislike them in general, thats just stupid.

[Psykomantis00]

QUOTE(thewickedjester @ Oct 5 2005, 08:09 PM)

Because your comparing two different cars with two different price points. Sure an Insight is about the same as an Accord, but what about the Civic and its Hybrid brother (sister, whatever). What is the difference between these two? (I acctually dont know, if it is a rather close price then I stand corrected and openly admit so)

[Rylinkus]

Base model Civic
Starts @ 14,500
MPG:38/40

Base model Hybrid Civic
Starts @ 19,900
MPG: 46/52

I'm not running the numbers but it's pretty apparent that your're not going to see any savings overnight.

You can't compare 2 different cars, IE a Honda Insight and a Honda Accord and expect it to be fair. The Accord is a higher level car then the Insight. If you were trying to make a coherant argument you'd be comparing the accord to the accord hybrid which starts @ 30,140 vs. 18,225 for a base level accord sedan (Numbers from Honda's website)