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[edbtz123]

QUOTE

I'll try it as long as you tell me which pins do what again LOL...I have many mobos now as I bought a load of faulty ones off Ebay and have found at least 6 v1.0 and v1.1s among them with classic FRAO pin 1 (0.0v)and pin 5 (<0.2v) voltages showing (despite they ALL FRAG non are FRAO!!) so look good candidates for the q7r1 dual tansistor.

This is how it is on the XBOX which pins do I join? (red line is those pins joined on the XBOX already, Pin 1 and 4 are on Ground (that's Earth for us UK peeps) :

Connect Pins 1 to 6.   WHich is basically hooking ground to pin 6.

By the way the problem with 3.3 Volts not going to pin 5 is due to some logic on the MOBO not sending 3.3 Volts, it tries to send it and gets a problem so it puts the voltage back low, i tries 3 times, hence getting that double reset thing.  The 3.3 Volts that should be coming into pin 5 is an INPUT to the transistor.  When there is 3.3 Volts the transistor turns on connecting pin 4 to pin 3 which would then turn transistor Q2 off.  If there is 0.2 Volts (typical FRAO) on pin 5 Q1 would be off which would leave pin 3 pulled up to 3.3 Volts which would turn transistor Q2 on connecting pins 1 to 6 (this I belive signals the xbox to FRAO).

Let me know what happens

[PimpleX]

So let me get this clear...

Connecting pin 1 to pin 6 on the q7r1 on GOOD board will make it FRAO? (not what we want at all BTW!!) or.....

...you mean connecting pin 1 to pin 6 on a FRAO / FRAG board with classic LPC pin 1 0.0v and pin 5 <0.2v will do something favorable to it like make it work? (which IS exactly what we want BTW!!)

Your description leads me to version 1 of those two.

Cheers,

PimpleX

[PimpleX]

Stupid fecking double post crap sorry

Cheers,

PimpleX

This post has been edited by PimpleX: Nov 22 2005, 11:50 PM

[fisix]

i hope at least some of you might come back and read this:

I have the beginnings of the same problem on a v1.0 xbox, modded with a  solderless pogopins xbit chip.

things just magically started to get worse over time. i tried bios and other software upgrades, nothing helped. about this time we noticed that the 3 and out thing happened mostly after watching a dvd, which means after booting into the msdash. also, it seemed to happen more often after xbmc timed out and automatically shut off the xbox.

so we didn't do that.

but then the 3 and out thing started happening again, but i could get the xbox to finally boot after smacking it a couple times. one day, the smacking didn't help enough, so i took it apart a reseated the mod chip after running an eraser over all the electrical contact points.

this seemed to work very well for about 2 months, and then yesterday i tried a dvd again, booted into the msdash, and then part way through the dvd the box seemed to hang a bit, but didn't immediately frao or frag.

however, when i tried to reboot, i got the 3 and out. i was able to smack it into working last night, but this morning no amount of external abuse would get it to boot.

SO, this morning i tired reseating/cleaning the points again, and it seems to be working again. enough so that i've backed up (on pc) the hd lock code, and i plan on unlocking the drive later (i installed a 300GB 5400rpm drive a while ago) to facilitate moving it if the 3 and out persists.

ANYWAY, the above is just a laundry list of my symptoms. so, lets draw some conclusions:

From what you guys have posted, and from my own experience, it looks like we are looking at a hardware issue. Since mine seemed to be influnced by the dvd spinning up (i never use it otherwise) OR by something triggering a timed soft-off, my thinking is (similar to you) that there is some dodgy device that is usually ok, but when it sees a large power draw, it switches to a bad mode that is very hard to get it out of. now, obviously, mine was also related to some mechanical issue since smacking the box brought it back to life. this could point to an issue with the pogopins or maybe with the main power connection. i doubt any other solder joints would be effected by a smack.

if there is a capacitor that has gone bad that needs to stay charged for the board to work right, then there is a chance that a large power draw (or a shock like a soft off) might discharge it and it would have a hard time recharging (if at all), a problem possibly influenced by a poor D0 contact, or some other bad contact with a mod chip. if the capacitor is there to smooth out the 3.3v you guys are missing, then it could be going bad and acting like a short, dropping the voltage down. also, whatever regulator is being used to generate that 3.3v might be working really hard to supply that 3.3v even against a leaky cap, and so it's usually on the edge and gets thrown off it when the system gets shocked.

so, wild guess, there is a leaky cap paired with an overworked regulator. a fix might require replacing both. testing the cap might be hard, because it might not be bad except under load.

OR, for some of you who have giveaway boards, you could try wiring a known source for 3.3v from another place on the board (there are probably a couple) to where pimplex is seeing a lack of the right voltage. this might fry the board, or it might bandaid the problem for a short while... i suppose if the problem is not a leaky cap and is instead soley a bad regulator, then this could be a semi permanent fix, but my guess is that it'd be short term only. you never know, though.

if my problem persists and/or gets worse, i'll put more time into trying to nail a fix down. till then, it is my hope that some of you with some time and already broken boards will try again...

one last thing, someone above said they tried replacing the cap that net(something) (don't remember the name) said might be the problem (the timer "battery" cap), but replacing it seemed to cause more problems... that cap most likely has a polarity, and probably doesn't like heat very much. if you put it on backwards or weren't really careful about keeping it cool, you could have easily turned it into a short... i'd love to see a pic.

[fisix]

i'm sorry guys, i was in the outline mode and didn't see the second half of the posts in this thread. so the above post is a little behind, but i think the info is still good.

some observations: if the transistor is acting a bit like a fuse, then maybe the other ones around the board are also? someone mentioned that the same or similar part is used in at least 2 other places. if replacing this one doesn't work, then maybe replacing those will help.

increasing the current spec on the device might be ok, but there's always the chance that the problems will propagate further along to some place where it's virtually impossible to repair... if the fix is cheap, and it only blows once ever couple years, it might be worthwhile to just keep replacing them...

anyway, i'm interested in how things progress. obviously, it looks like my transistor is beginning to show signs of going bad.

[fahrenheit]

Well my console still occassionally boots without FRAO, so the 'going bad' part I can believe, as opposed to being 'dead'.

[ferrari_rulz_02]

QUOTE(fisix @ Nov 23 2005, 09:30 AM)

increasing the current spec on the device might be ok, but there's always the chance that the problems will propagate further along to some place where it's virtually impossible to repair... if the fix is cheap, and it only blows once ever couple years, it might be worthwhile to just keep replacing them...

thats a good point you make. id be very tempted to just buy 20 of these trannies, and replace them when they die.

[grifface]

 

QUOTE(grifface @ Nov 22 2005, 04:26 PM)

i have read thru quit a bit of this thread.. can somebody explain to me the difference between FRAG and FRAO .. My xbox jus started this stuff like 2 days ago when i put the lid on and hooked up the usb ports on the front of the control panel  i unhooked that wire and thru it away (oops) and still have the lid off, i took the power unit out and looked it over , but found nothing. i have a v1.6 MB and my light flashes red and green.. can some1 jus point me in the right direction ?

F LASHING RED AND o  or G   i jus firugred it out.. but ... im still fkd  i was tappin on the bottom of my box earlier on momntarily got it to boot it .. so i tried to run a game and it would only black screen     so i went ahead an took mb out.. look at solder pts.. taped em up  havent got blue light since.. even resldered em  but yes i figured out the FRAG AND FRAO>> AND IM FRAG!! STILL is that good and SAVEABLE? i jus wanna boot once more to unlock the 250gb drive i put in jus prior to this fiasco

[ferrari_rulz_02]

QUOTE(grifface @ Nov 23 2005, 08:00 PM)

i jus wanna boot once more to unlock the 250gb drive i put in jus prior to this fiasco

well im hoping you can unlock it.

if it is FRAGing, then you have a lot more chance at gettign ti working. try doing some searching for FRAG, and see if you can get some info on what you can do to fix it.

[PimpleX]

Joining pin 6 to ground on the q7r1 is the same as grounding LPC pin 5 so that will do nothing to help.

If the trannie has blown then putting 3.3volts to the pin 5 feed on the q7r1 is doubtful as well I think.

Unless you can just remove the trannie and run byoasses to the relavent pin pads if it's just acting as a type of fuse?

Cheers,

PimpleX

[hedbanger]

i got the same problem here with a 1.6, it frags on boot (after a failed mod attempt?) and pin 5 shows .2 volt, although pin 1 shows ~1,5v or so. i already replaced the ma twice with one from a dead 1.0 board. the second time i was extremly cautious so i´m pretty sure that i didnt wreck the ma. does it make a difference what letter the last one is? cos theyre different on the 1.0 and the 1.6, which makes me believe the manufacture week theory.
any suggestions on that bitch?

[ferrari_rulz_02]

QUOTE(hedbanger @ Nov 25 2005, 08:26 AM)

which makes me believe the manufacture week theory.

the what now?

[hedbanger]

Someone said that the 3rd symbol on the transistor shows the week its been built.
i got to grab some bc337s and try if the board works with them.

[hedbanger]

ok i used bc637 and the board now functions, i. e. it doesnt frag anymore, i didnt test it on a tv, but it should work.

[edbtz123]

Has anybody else confirmed that replacing the transistor fixes the problem, i am starting to think that this transistor is not the problem