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[Bo33b]

Hi all. I wanted to try to sort out the current state of LIVE banning, so I put together a complete list of possible configurations and the resulting outcome. I actually don't use LIVE, but I have done alot of research; I will be getting broadband in a week and I hope a subscription to LIVE will follow soon thereafter Please, please, please - if there is a mistake here let me know. Also, I'm not really sure when a ban is preceeded by the "Live Not Found" error, so if you have info on that please let me know. Be sure to read the notes at the bottom. If there are any other practices that result in a ban that I left out, don't hesitate to mention 'em.

CODE

**********************Definitions*************************
* Ban     = Banned eeprom + Banned hdd + Flagged GamerTag *
* Single  = never married = never accessed live = virgin  *
* Spouse  = original mate from the initial marriage       *
* Married = married & seperated, but married nonetheless  *
*  (Except in 3-6; those are married & living together *
***********************************************************

* Non-retail BIOS + Any setup below = Ban
* LIVE-enabled game + hdd with hacked/illegal files used by said game = Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Spouse  unbanned retail  hdd + Clean   GT = LIVE
* Married unbanned eeprom + Spouse  unbanned retail  hdd + Flagged GT = LIVE
* Married unbanned eeprom + Spouse  unbanned upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = LIVE
* Married unbanned eeprom + Spouse  unbanned upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = Ban
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned retail  hdd + Clean   GT = Marriage + LIVE
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned retail  hdd + Flagged GT = Marriage + LIVE
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = Marriage + LIVE
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = Ban
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned retail  hdd + Clean   GT = Polygamy + LIVE
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned retail  hdd + Flagged GT = Polygamy + LIVE
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = Polygamy + LIVE
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = Ban
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Married banned   retail  hdd + Clean   GT = Ban
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Married banned   retail  hdd + Flagged GT = Ban
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Married banned   upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = Ban
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Married banned   upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned retail  hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned retail  hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned retail  hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned retail  hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married banned   retail  hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married banned   retail  hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married banned   upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married banned   upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Single  unbanned retail  hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Single  unbanned retail  hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Single  unbanned upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Single  unbanned upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Married unbanned retail  hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Married unbanned retail  hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Married unbanned upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Married unbanned upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Married banned   retail  hdd + Clean   GT = LOL
* Married banned   eeprom + Married banned   retail  hdd + Flagged GT = LOL
* Married banned   eeprom + Married banned   upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = LOL
* Married banned   eeprom + Married banned   upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = Xbox explodes on login

A few quick points (accurate to my knowledge):

1) A marriage occurs whenever a unique eeprom successfully accesses LIVE. Each eeprom can be married once.
2) GamerTags can be flagged for any number of reasons (See MT 101, Chapter 5). If MS wanted, however, they could flag your GT for no reason whatsoever.
3) Flagged GTs subject any system they're used on to hdd serial, model, size and/or possibly even content screening(s). Exactly what MS checks on the hdd is unknown; at the very least they know if it is/isn't a stock drive. If you have an after-market hdd, be sure all the accounts you load onto your box are clean/trusted.
4) The exact point in the LIVE login process at which a marriage occurs is as yet unknown.
5) The banning process happens in stages and at MS's leisure. If you've performed one of the bannable offenses listed above but are still online, just be patient.
6) There have been reports of XBL-blocking BIOSes allowing access to LIVE and the user getting screwed. Hacked BIOSes are the #1 reason for getting banned. Softmodders must cold-boot and chippers must turn off the chip or switch to a retail bank.
7) Be especially weary of using the in-game or in-dash LIVE auto-login features. If you run a LIVE-enabled game from the hdd and auto-login is enabled, you run the risk of accessing LIVE without even knowing it.
Once your components are married, the only way to change the hdd and remain unbanned is to swap in the eeprom's original spouse hdd before going on LIVE (or use some type of dual-drive setup)
9) If anyone thinks this should be posted in lordvader's pinned thread "Marriage Theroy 101," please let me know. I didn't put it there because I knew it would be long and I didn't want to ruin that nicely maintained thread. Hats off to lordvader and his thread's contributors.
10) If you can experiment in any way (ie, you have a bunch of eeproms and some time), this section of the scene could really use some breakthrough developments. Not much has changed since July 04. I'm currently researching means to alter hdd serial numbers, but for cryin' out loud--we don't even know for sure if MS actually uses 'em.

OK, I'm done.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

[lordvader129]

looks very nice, if you like i can add a link to this in the MT101 thread, would probably get it more notice than if you posted it on the last page

[Bo33b]

Wow, that would be great. I'm not sure if it's worthy, but I'd definately take you up on your offer.

[Lord Magnus]

QUOTE(Bo33b @ Aug 27 2005, 09:58 PM)

CODE

**********************Definitions*************************
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = Polygamy + LIVE

Is that part 100% confirmed?

I'm confused myself with that specific point, and it's really bothering me like a splinter in my mind, Morpheus would say. I thought that the Polygamy only worked with stock HDD's.

Edit: Almost forgot to congratulate Bo33b for putting all that together. Good job mate

This post has been edited by Lord Magnus: Aug 28 2005, 01:20 AM

[darkplayer]

This is great stuff , keep it up.

[Metalb00]

u have to be very careful when restoreing a new eeprom and hdd , i was banned 3 times the first time was because i wasnt useing a live blocking bios , the 2nd time was after i got a new eeprom and used a hdd from my comp but i did usee the hdd w a non live blocking bios , the 3rd time was new eeprom new hdd and didnt even use the xbox till i got the bios , im pretty sure im flagged and can never go on live w a large hdd

[Bo33b]

QUOTE(Lord Magnus @ Aug 27 2005, 07:22 PM)

CODE

* Single  unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = Polygamy + LIVE

Is that part 100% confirmed?

No, it isn't. And there is very little solid info on polygamy, mostly because if someone has a box with a stable marriage they don't put their hdd in a new box or flash a new eeprom just for shits and giggles. However, I thought long and hard 'bout it...and here's my reasoning:

* GT is not flagged, so MS hasn't inspected the system
* Eeprom is brand new, so the box's initial login will create a new entry in MS's marriage database
* Hdd serial/model/whatever identifer MS uses is already in the marriage database, linked to another eeprom, but MS (apparently) doesn't query this info. This notion is derived from lordvader's new sub-theory on LIVE's login process:

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Jan 6 2005, 08:47 PM)

... Live prompts your xbox for a login of sorts, this login is the same as your EEPROM serial number. It then asks for a password, this password is your HDs lock code or HD serial number. If they do not match what MS has on file on their servers you cannot connect to Live (Live Not Found) and it adds your EEPROM serial to the list of pending bans (same as folks who log in with a hacked bios) If it is a EEPROM they do not have on file they put it on file with the HD code and thus the marriage takes place. ...

* Since it is well known that both retail and upgraded hdds are allowed entries in the "password" field of MS's database (indicated by the fact that upgraded hdds work on LIVE at all), there is no reason to assume that after-market drives would cause the system to operate otherwise; the key, of course, is that the GT is clean.

That's my thought, anyway. Still looking for verification, though...

[Lord Magnus]

I understand your reasoning, and I know where you're coming from 100 % since it's the same thing that I think every time somebody asks about it.

That's also why I so eagerly look for confirmation on that. And just because I'm the most curious guy you could ever come across.. it's kinda like a curse.

I guess there's only 1 way to find out. So I'm going to keep my eyes open. I sometimes feel bad giving people advice about this specific part, knowing that it's not confirmed, and that fact just kills me.

You did a hell of a job mate, kudos to you.

[Bo33b]

It might be an evil thing to do, but one way to find out if something works or not is to tell people that it does, and encourage them to do it. Rest assured that if it doesn't work, you'll hear about it! I'm not saying this was my intention; I'm confident that the chart is accurate, and I don't want to mislead anyone.

I just thought it was time for a comprehensive list of what will get you on LIVE and what won't, and since I don't yet have LIVE I've had to grab info from several threads and make some inferences. None of this information has been discovered by me--I owe everything to people like Lord Magnus, lordvader, and others. Again, contributions/fixes welcome!

EDIT: Thanks for the compliments, but it's you guys who've provided the information and had to buy new eeproms/harddisks!

This post has been edited by Bo33b: Aug 28 2005, 05:16 PM

[zakinator]

QUOTE(Bo33b @ Aug 27 2005, 03:58 PM)

* Single  unbanned eeprom + Married banned   upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = Ban
* Single  unbanned eeprom + Married banned   upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = Ban

I currently have a single unbanned eeprom and a married banned upgraded hdd.  I also have a flagged GT (I assume since I have been banned twice).  I thought by using a new eeprom, with a banned hdd would be no problem as long as I got a new GT.  MS would marry my new eeprom to my banned hdd and not realize that it was banned elsewhere.  According to your post this is not the case.  I don't want to pay another $50.00 to get on live and I already have a new eeprom that I don't want to waste.  Please let me know, thanks.

[lordvader129]

QUOTE(zakinator @ Oct 14 2005, 10:15 AM)

I currently have a single unbanned eeprom and a married banned upgraded hdd.  I also have a flagged GT (I assume since I have been banned twice).  I thought by using a new eeprom, with a banned hdd would be no problem as long as I got a new GT.  MS would marry my new eeprom to my banned hdd and not realize that it was banned elsewhere.  According to your post this is not the case.  I don't want to pay another $50.00 to get on live and I already have a new eeprom that I don't want to waste.  Please let me know, thanks.

you need a new HD, get a cheap stock HD and keep your old GT, then swap your banned HD in when you want to play offline

[Hyper_Eye]

QUOTE(Lord Magnus @ Aug 28 2005, 02:22 AM)

Is that part 100% confirmed?

I'm confused myself with that specific point, and it's really bothering me like a splinter in my mind, Morpheus would say. I thought that the Polygamy only worked with stock HDD's.

Edit: Almost forgot to congratulate Bo33b for putting all that together. Good job mate

I can now verify that this case worked for me perfectly fine.

[derrick_walk]

* Single  unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned retail  hdd + Flagged GT = Marriage + LIVE


First of all I'd like to congratulate you all on the grate info posted here.

Since I got my upgraded HDD banned, I'm puting the retail one (never used on LIVE before) back in with a new EEPROM, my question is:

Should the disk be completley clean (considering the scenerio quoted), I mean should I delete all non original files (like evoxdash.xbe), I meantion this because I used the dirve when I first installed my mod chip and I have sveral homebrew software files in the HDD. Does it matter if I don't restore it to factory state?

Thank you all

[lordvader129]

QUOTE(derrick_walk @ Dec 30 2005, 10:11 AM)

* Single  unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned retail  hdd + Flagged GT = Marriage + LIVE
First of all I'd like to congratulate you all on the grate info posted here.

Since I got my upgraded HDD banned, I'm puting the retail one (never used on LIVE before) back in with a new EEPROM, my question is:

Should the disk be completley clean (considering the scenerio quoted), I mean should I delete all non original files (like evoxdash.xbe), I meantion this because I used the dirve when I first installed my mod chip and I have sveral homebrew software files in the HDD. Does it matter if I don't restore it to factory state?

Thank you all

evox and other apps/files should be ok, as long as you dont have something liek halo2 hacks or anything on the HD

[Gumba]

QUOTE(Bo33b @ Aug 28 2005, 04:54 AM)

* Married unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned retail  hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned retail  hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Single  unbanned upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned retail  hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned retail  hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married unbanned upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married banned   retail  hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married banned   retail  hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married banned   upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married unbanned eeprom + Married banned   upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Single  unbanned retail  hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Single  unbanned retail  hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Single  unbanned upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Single  unbanned upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Married unbanned retail  hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Married unbanned retail  hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Married unbanned upgrade hdd + Clean   GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban
* Married banned   eeprom + Married unbanned upgrade hdd + Flagged GT = (Live Not Found) + Ban

Wow,

The biggest improvement to the documentation of Marriage Theory in months (years?) )

Congratulations Bo33b

I think an important data point which needs to be worked out now is which of the banning combinations also results in a flagged GT

Is it all of them? Should you put "+ Flagged GT" on the Clean GT ones then?