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[xboxcanuck]

After reviewing some youtube videos I've determined I definitely held the heatgun on the gpu/cpu too long and should've watched some videos showing various techniques first.

It appears I melted the solder way to much under the CPU/GPU and it bubbled out the sides and likely has shorted somewhere underneath and will likely need to be reballed although I haven't tried booting it up yet.


http://s179269986.on...xbox360/GPU.JPG

http://s179269986.on...xbox360/CPU.JPG

I probably should've done a better job cleaning off the thermal paste first too but what's done is done.

Any suggestions on how to proceed without reballing the CPU and GPU or is that my only option at this point?

[smiley mcrib]

Ouch dude, you should have never attempted a reflow with a heat gun. honestly, the only thing you can do is get a new cpu and gpu chip, considering the temp you had it at, the chips can only with stand a certain amount of heat. Im almost positive your chips are fried. You will have to get new ones and get a reballing kit, might just be in your best interest to get a new 360 considering you will need alot of stuff to perform the reball, like a reflow/reball station with temp probes. Sorry but your sol, sell it or find someone who can reball it and put new chips on it.

[xboxcanuck]

This guy claims a heatgun works if done right:


Of course I understand he's not monitoring the heat properly and it's definitely not following best practices.

Fortunately I only paid $40 for that board that had RROD and it included a 20GB hdd, power brick, and the component cables so it's not a huge loss. I just wish I practiced on the Xenon board I have first because of the lack of HDMI port.

I'm actually in the market for a reflow/reball station with temp probes so if anyone's got recommendations, I'm open to suggestions. I saw someone on here uses the T870A.

I'm also considering purchasing a METCAL MX500P-11 REWORK STATION + STAND + HOT TWEEZERS but still an amateur.

[xboxcanuck]

As a side note I also tried reflowing a Xenon board using the technique shown in the youtube video above and have it booting to the dashboard now.

Is it normal for the CPU heatsink to get super hot to the touch so it's almost burning within minutes without even launching a game?

[VanillaFaZe]

With the heatsink getting hot to the touch did you remember to put the fan shroud back on? I made that mistake once.

[digipimp75]

*DING*

Popcorn, anyone?  

[relaxxx]

The trick is to get a heat gun with proper temps or modify one to produce the right temp. For example you could take a 1000F gun and add a combination of series and parallel halogen lamps to the power line to make it produce 500F. Probably about a 600W lamp would do it. If your really crafty you could even make something that heats the bottom of the motherboard while controlling the gun temperature.

[xboxcanuck]

QUOTE(blondie85 @ Jan 16 2011, 11:06 PM)

Not normal in my experience!  Even during thermal testing I can still touch the heatsinks fairly comfortably.

It's actually perfectly possible to reflow with a heatgun, but you have to do it right.  To get it right every time takes a lot of practice and you have to be very careful.  You also need to have the right type of heatgun!  I have one with variable temp and airflow, and a custom made nozzle similar to the ones on proper hot air stations.  A thermocouple, preheater and something to stabilize the board are also a must.  I've used my setup for 50+ successful reflows.

The chips might still be ok, but I wouldn't count on it.  Could be a good board to practice reballing on tho if you're serious about getting in to it.  Was the board at an angle at all?  I've never seen the solder come together and run out like that!

The board wasn't on an angle at all but as I said in the original post I'm aware I concentrated heat too long on the CPU/GPU. I used a solder tool and pump to clean up those solder balls that formed on the sides afterwards but it likely needs to be reballed and possibly I damaged CPU/GPU. I won't know I until I try reballing it or pay someone else to.

QUOTE

*DING*

Popcorn, anyone?

I'm guessing that comment is in reference to this. I'm sure the fact that my office has a humidifier running (because the air gets so dry in the winter) would contribute to the popcorn effect as well. Good to know about that.  

QUOTE(VanillaFaZe @ Jan 17 2011, 12:12 AM)

With the heatsink getting hot to the touch did you remember to put the fan shroud back on? I made that mistake once.

Just to clarify...now we're talking about the 2nd motherboard (Xenon) that did appear to successfully reflow using the same equipment but instead I followed the technique in the youtube video.

On this board there was no fan shroud or fan on the heatsink during dashboard testing. It just has the cpu/gpu & heatsinks cleaned up and arctic silver 5 applied to them. The original xclamps are replaced with the following parts from lowes:

a ) 8 M5-.80 x 10 Machine Screws #138433
b ) 16 #10 Flat Washers – Nylon #139065
c ) 16 5mm Flat Washers – Metal #138319

I assembled the parts in the following order:

metal case > screw > nylon washer > motherboard > nylon washer > metal washer > heatsink.

I've seen some people put the screws on the outside of the metal case and drill the hole larger for it to fit through...I've tried that as well and got the same overheating result.

When I boot to the dashboard and let it run for 2 minutes 30 seconds it shuts off with 2 right lights indicating overheating. Since I'm unexperienced at this I'm wondering if this is normal behaviour with no fan attached at the dashboard or if it's something I've done wrong with the assembly of washers/screw or thermal paste application.

[xboxhaxorz]

QUOTE(xboxcanuck @ Jan 16 2011, 08:03 PM)

This guy claims a heatgun works if done right:


Of course I understand he's not monitoring the heat properly and it's definitely not following best practices.

Fortunately I only paid $40 for that board that had RROD and it included a 20GB hdd, power brick, and the component cables so it's not a huge loss. I just wish I practiced on the Xenon board I have first because of the lack of HDMI port.

I'm actually in the market for a reflow/reball station with temp probes so if anyone's got recommendations, I'm open to suggestions. I saw someone on here uses the T870A.

I'm also considering purchasing a METCAL MX500P-11 REWORK STATION + STAND + HOT TWEEZERS but still an amateur.

I can make a video and claim something works as well. Dont believe everything. Heatguns do work yes i will admit that. The longevity of the repair and the time and patience it takes for a heat gun definitely is something to think about. Say it works for 30dys then it RRODs again. You really need a proper station.

i recommend the x tronic 8000. its cheap and comes with a ton of stuff, check out XS Filter - 062508 - filtered.s for tutorials. dont use youtube

[xboxcanuck]

QUOTE(xboxhaxorz @ Jan 17 2011, 01:22 PM)

I can make a video and claim something works as well. Dont believe everything. Heatguns do work yes i will admit that. The longevity of the repair and the time and patience it takes for a heat gun definitely is something to think about. Say it works for 30dys then it RRODs again. You really need a proper station.

i recommend the x tronic 8000. its cheap and comes with a ton of stuff, check out XS Filter - 062508 - filtered.s for tutorials. dont use youtube

I understand professional reballing is the best option and heatguns are just a homebrew "hack" that could fail at any time and cause more damage than it fixes. I'm all for investing in a proper rework station as this isn't just for a 1 off xbox360 repair. I purchased 3 rrod systems so far to practice with, the 3rd unit booted right up to a dashboard and didn't even give me a rrod and I've been able to use it. I've also got a GPU on an ibook g4 that needs to be reballed due to the same issue as the 360 GPU and I do want to learn more about electronics repair/hacking in general.

The best resource I've found for reliable soldering/reflow tutorials is from Business Electronics Soldering Technologies (BEST). They're an ISO 9001:2008 registered organization so I definitely take the youtube videos with a grain of salt but it's still interesting to see what people come up with and try it first hand to see what works and what doesn't.

As for XS Filter - 062508 - filtered.s tutorials, what is that exactly? Is it a search term to get me to experts of the xbox forums or is that the xbox-scene forums filtering what you typed? When I google that most of the links bring me back to this forum.

QUOTE

Even without the fans it shouldn't overheat so quickly. What is the secondary error code? 2 red lights doesn't always mean overheating.

Secondary Error code is 0011 - E05: CPU over heating - If you are receiving this error after disassembling your console make sure to all 8 of the heatsinc screws are tightened securely to the board/heatsink holes.

The screws are all tightened and I've applied the last bit of arctic 5 I have. If required I'll resand the heatsink and apply this alternative silver thermal compound I just purchased and either put the xclamps back on or do something different with these machine screws/washers.

[blondie85]

Since it's definitely overheating, I guess you need to check the usual first - good application of thermal paste, not too thick not too thin; and proper contact of the heatsink onto the chip.  These would be my first suspects.  I once discovered that the washers I was using were actually slightly too thick, and prevented the heatsinks from making proper contact.  This is easy to see as the thermal paste will leave a good imprint on the heatsink when it is properly fitted.

But if the heatsink is getting very hot then it would seem to indicate that the heat is being properly transferred.  Plug in the fans and see if that prevents it.  

Arctic silver 5 does require quite a number of thermal cycles to reach it's optimum AFAIK, so perhaps that is part of the problem?

[smiley mcrib]

Hello xboxcanuck, as stated previously in your post, the guy clamied he had success, the problems without know the temp of the board, as stated i have two temp probes, you dont actually know if you had a proper reflow. Instead, you may have had the solder soften up to temporaily give it a connection any maybe have it work for a week or so? hard to say. As far as the x-clamp method goes, its a complete toss up. i stay away from it as it puts to much pressure on the chips and warps the board, leaving it very hard to have a proper reflow. Artic silver 5 is my preferred weapon of choice, but ive also heard good things about ceramique paste? not sure, never used it, and no the gpu or cpu should not get that hot within two to three minutes even if it doesnt have a fan. In my experience, ive never had the heatsinks get hot within two or three minutes of startup. As for reflow/reball, ive read many articles and almost all of them state that a proper reflow with controlled temps should produce desired results without having to reball. As for the station, i have a 968, which is very typical and very easy to use. I use flux and a preheater, which should give you 75 percent of your heat. sorry for such a lentghy post, all of the above statments are purely from my experience, hopefully it may be able to help you.

[Weirdjerz3y]

I actually heatgun fix all the time if someone needs it, but i also replace the thermal paste with mx-2 or stars if i happened to run out. I also 12volt fan mod it.

[smiley mcrib]

to poster above, is the thermal paste you use cheaper? ive been wondering about other kinds but have just stucl with what i know. and as for the heat gun method, i dont reccommend it to anyone, but if your able to centralize the heat i suppose you could get a reflow just seems a little hard and dangerous for me. As for the 12 v, i also do that on any fix.

[MadMaxGR]

QUOTE(sjanny01 @ Jan 19 2011, 02:52 PM)

I melted the solder way to much under the CPU/GPU and it bubbled out the sides and likely has shorted somewhere underneath and will likely need to be reballed although I haven't tried booting it up yet.
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Don't try to boot it. It needs reball, thats 100% sure!

Next time take off the glue around the chip before you start reflowing. this glue push the chip down and in effect, push the solder to the sides. Also be carefull on your temps and timings, when heatgunning.

Now your only solution is to reball it. Good luck!