Print

[ConteZero76]

QUOTE(efu9 @ Jun 19 2010, 07:17 PM)

nice piece of equipment . ill just wait till it breaks and believe me it will everything is so compressed it will have cgpu problems buy it for a fraction of the price then repair . !yeaher i almost bought one today glad i didnt i was just gonna dissasemble  it but i knew there were gonna use a new disc drive. ill leave it to the pros. we'll have to cut tracers and rewire but it will keep us on our toes!!
props to all the teams dissecting this machine.
c4e
solomods
team-xecuter
and others.

Not this one.
This is propely engineered and solid, you can see from the ferric capacitors and the "Intel class" heat spreader.

[themonsterbbc]

QUOTE(biscoito @ Jun 18 2010, 10:40 PM)

Why can't they just make the DVD Drive with the firmware inside a ROM chip ? Is ROM memory really that much more expensive than FLASH ?

I don't know if your question has been answered, but I'll answer it for you. Yes, ROM is much more expensive than Flash. Also, if you only get 1 shot with ROM, if they write to a ROM chip and it is corrupted somewhere, you can't erase and try again, and since the ROM chip is inside of the controller chip, that controller chip is useless, and since the controller chip is soldered onto the PCB when they write to it, they're not going to desolder it and solder a new one on, so if a ROM write fails, the whole PCB and all parts included are scrapped.

Also, you can't recycle ROM, for instance, if the 360 dies, but the DVD drive is still good, they can erase and flash a new DVD key and put it in a refurb 360, if it is ROM, it will only ever work with 1 Xbox, unless of course they would change the DVD key of the 360 motherboard, but that's more complicated and time consuming than changing that of the DVD drive's (assuming it's a flash chip).

What I think Mediatek/Microsoft should do is this, now I don't know how feasible it is, but *assuming* this is a flash chip and *assuming* it's exploitable, the next step, other than going full ROM, is using an internal EEPROM for the DVD key, and an internal ROM chip for the firmware. Even if you could read out and erase and rewrite the EEPROM, you could only ever swap DVD drives, you could never rewrite the firmware with hacked firmware because it's on a ROM chip. The *worst* you could do would be to read the key, and then flash that key into a currently exploitable drive, aka any current LiteOn, BenQ, Samsung, or Shitachi, and use that, but that would drive up the prices of replacement drives. Either way, it would be bad for MS, but not as bad as the 'put everything in flash' option which they've currently been using and which currently hasn't worked out. Honestly, I think 100% ROM is the best idea, but if they want some type of recyclability and some type of reusability but with the ROM security, I say ROM/EEPROM is the best shot. But my bets...this new D4S, it has a flash, with the FW and key on it, and it's SOMEHOW not perfect, otherwise, why would they put the glue on? You know the glue costs money, so if it wasn't worth the cost why would they implement it?

[nachomans]

Old Xbox 1 ver 1.6 had ROM only bios. It was hacked in 3 months.

[juggahax0r]

QUOTE(nachomans @ Jun 19 2010, 08:39 PM)

Old Xbox 1 ver 1.6 had ROM only bios. It was hacked in 3 months.

 Yea but they are talking about the DVD drive. And you are wrong , the Xbox 1 used flash. It was write protected.
Do you not remember that the way it was hacked was to re-enable writing and then flashing a new Xecuter image to it ( or whatever bios you chose)
 In any case no relevance here.

[efu9]

QUOTE(ConteZero76 @ Jun 19 2010, 05:49 PM)

Not this one.
This is propely engineered and solid, you can see from the ferric capacitors and the "Intel class" heat spreader.

now that i look at it yeah i didnt notice the copper in the center of the heat sink and the less power wattage makes a big difference in the heat buildup less is good i havent ever had to repair a jasper console yet , the only thing i think may pose a problem is the cpu and gpu in one chip they should have added an intake fan ,im pretty sure thats just an out-take. but it is close to the open grill for fresh air . they might have like a 2% fail rate compare to the old 30% with the older consoles. it still will break.

[themonsterbbc]

QUOTE(nachomans @ Jun 19 2010, 08:39 PM)

Old Xbox 1 ver 1.6 had ROM only bios. It was hacked in 3 months.

Very true, but that's only because using the LPT port you could in a sense disable the onboard ROM and insert your own chip which could be flash, and you could write, erase, and read at a whim. If there *is* a way to read out the new LiteOn FW, and your key, hack up some LT, there would be no way to disable the stock rom and insert your new one.

On the Xbox 1 there was a bus that the ROM travelled over, so there were data lines you could ground. On the LiteOn DVD drives, the flash/rom/whatever chip and the controller chip are on the same package, you'd have to decap each chip and solder to wires that are thinner than human hairs, not your average user mod chip install.

QUOTE(juggahax0r @ Jun 19 2010, 09:02 PM)

Yea but they are talking about the DVD drive. And you are wrong , the Xbox 1 used flash. It was write protected.
Do you not remember that the way it was hacked was to re-enable writing and then flashing a new Xecuter image to it ( or whatever bios you chose)
 In any case no relevance here.

Wrong, Xbox 1.6 DID indeed have a ROM chip, (1.0 - 1.5 did have flash you are semi correct) but as I just mentioned, you could disable it and add your own modchip that had a flash chip onboard.

Also, Xbox 1 was exploitable in so many ways AFTER the boot process (rom/flash modchip fuckarounds were boot process hacks) i.e. dash exploits, that even if Xbox 1.6 COULDN'T be fucked around via modchip/romchip/whatever the fuck then you could still run your own code. The DVD drive really doesn't do that, unless someone can find a buffer overflow in the stock firmware, and somehow find a way to attack it (you can't write or read into the DVD drive's memory because it's all on-die, and the external ram chip is used for DVD data cache from what I can understand) you can't use a software exploit on a DVD drive. You have to do FW replacement. FW replacement being close to impossible if not fully impossible if it's a ROM chip. And it's next to useless unless there's some way to read out the DVD key, without the DVD key you can't do anything. In 83850v2 and 93450 MS removed all DVD key retrieval methods. Up until that point (from Samsung ms25/Hitachi 46 all the way to LiteOn 83450v1) MS had implemented (granted it was hidden and hard to get to) a way for THEM to get the key from the DVD drive, hackers figured out how it was done, and made their own tools to do it. In 83450v2 and 93450 (at least from what I've been told by some very high up hackers) MS REMOVED key retrieval methods. So even MS couldn't get the keys from the drives. Now the only way hackers can is by a hardware exploit (trace cutting the whole she-bang I'm sure you're all familiar with) Assuming microsoft fixed that, and all other hardware exploits, there is no software designed way to get in, the only other way is to find a software or another hardware glitch. So instead of looking for something we know is there, we're hoping to find something that might not be there, and ISN'T there is MS did their job correctly. This is all assuming on the D4S they didn't reimplement dvd key retrieval methods.

[juggahax0r]

Nevermind i thought he was talking in general about the Xbox 1 not just version 1.6 my fault.

 Disregard my OP.



This post has been edited by juggahax0r: Jun 20 2010, 05:46 AM

[crazymenike]

QUOTE(themonsterbbc @ Jun 20 2010, 12:18 AM)

In 83850v2 and 93450 MS removed all DVD key retrieval methods. Up until that point (from Samsung ms25/Hitachi 46 all the way to LiteOn 83450v1) MS had implemented (granted it was hidden and hard to get to) a way for THEM to get the key from the DVD drive, hackers figured out how it was done, and made their own tools to do it. In 83450v2 and 93450 (at least from what I've been told by some very high up hackers) MS REMOVED key retrieval methods. So even MS couldn't get the keys from the drives. Now the only way hackers can is by a hardware exploit (trace cutting the whole she-bang I'm sure you're all familiar with) Assuming microsoft fixed that, and all other hardware exploits, there is no software designed way to get in, the only other way is to find a software or another hardware glitch. So instead of looking for something we know is there, we're hoping to find something that might not be there, and ISN'T there is MS did their job correctly. This is all assuming on the D4S they didn't reimplement dvd key retrieval methods.

I highly doubt M$ put a backdoor in those drives for reasons of "reading the DVD key"

M$ has a database with ALL that info and more.  Believe me, reading the DVD key was the last of their concerns, considering all they have to do for a refurb is scan the damn barcode on the back of the system, and bam, DVD key, CPU key, kv data etc...

The very notion that M$ added a way for THEM (M$) to retrieve the key is just plain old retarded.

[themonsterbbc]

QUOTE(crazymenike @ Jun 20 2010, 03:04 PM)

I highly doubt M$ put a backdoor in those drives for reasons of "reading the DVD key"

M$ has a database with ALL that info and more.  Believe me, reading the DVD key was the last of their concerns, considering all they have to do for a refurb is scan the damn barcode on the back of the system, and bam, DVD key, CPU key, kv data etc...

The very notion that M$ added a way for THEM (M$) to retrieve the key is just plain old retarded.

I must disagree. So you're saying on the original 74850 (or whatever) liteon drive they just HAPPENED to program the FW so that when a specific CDB was sent when the drive was powered on with the tray half open the drive just HAPPENED to spit out the key over the serial connection, bullshit. Microsoft programmed that shit in.

[crazymenike]

Just think about your statement for one minute...

You can make assumptions all day long as to what microsoft did, but from a business point of view it makes absolutely no sense, and doing that to millions of returned xbox's would be a retarded amount of wasted labor hours.

EVERYTHING about your XBOX is stored in a database for MS.  You buy an XBOX, and they already have your DVD KEY and your CPU KEY and all that stuff on file in that database.  They don't NEED to plug in a drive to get your DVD key.  Why do you think people cant just make up random ass-ed KV's with an app to connect to XBL?  Because KV's are compared with info stored on microsofts servers, if it doesnt exist, you dont go online, obv theres a lot more to it, but the point of the matter is, when they produce a console, they already know your DVD key.

Obv the firmwares had backdoors, and they werent bulletproof, but I can assure you they weren't deliberate functions added to the console so they can read it out if needed.  Microsofts system in comparing keys on the console and whatnot was clearly flawed from the get-go, which is the reason they kept changing drive mfg's and firmware revisions (obviously hardware errors didnt help as well)

They pump out a 7xxx liteon, and oh shit, shortly aftewards it's hacked.  "Damn we need to fix this!" So they pump out an 8xxx v1 series, and oh shit, shortly aftewards it's hacked even more easily..."Oops! Damn, gotta fix this shit again!!"  Then comes the 8xxxV2, and of course the 9x, trying to patch flaws.


"bullshit. Microsoft programmed that shit in"

Next you gonna tell me the JTAG exploits were deliberate as well?  Did they purposefully leave an exploit so they could read the CPU key if needed?

Like I said, just sit and think about your statement.

This post has been edited by crazymenike: Jun 21 2010, 02:58 AM

[nitussi]

So what if a broken 360 with a different case is sent in? Meaning barcode not matching the cpu key. They just can't go by the barcode.

[syntaxerror329]

QUOTE(nitussi @ Jun 21 2010, 04:26 PM)

So what if a broken 360 with a different case is sent in? Meaning barcode not matching the cpu key. They just can't go by the barcode.

They probably can't fix it and just toss it out.

[360player]

Well if it is at all exploitable and able to be hacked I think the "guys" will get it done. I have had my doubts about them in the past from their own statements, but they have always come through time and time again.
I think they are batting a 1000 so far in like 20 attempts so unless MS is throwing some major curve ball here I think the streak will continue.

GAME ON! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[crazymenike]

I agree 100%.

May take some time, but theres no doubt about it, this thing will be hacked.

[jhonsadins]

HI..
if i was a new xbox 360 slim i-d be very nervous send to me this pcb my hands is ready !