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[juggahax0r]

QUOTE(thwack @ Jun 18 2010, 04:57 AM)

I'm swapping me Jasper for one next week - although I still (and I think I'm in a minority) like the aesthetics of the old 360 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

 It's hard to say whether you are in the minority. I certainly like the new design 10 times better , aesthetically at this point only. However I have heard quite a few people complain about it.

 I am glad we get some higher resolution pictures than what solomods put out. I should have 1 of these in the next few weeks myself , I might have to go hold up a gamestop to get it but hey whatever works right?
 
 I like the beeping button push confirmation thing it does now , and the touch sensitive buttons , however I wonder if those will ever wear out , at least when a button is mechanical it is easier to fix if it does break.

[MadMaxGR]

I just look forward to see if the DVD is exploitable like the previous versions of the Lite-on

[tomgreen99200]

Very nice pictures. This design should work much better.

[jdsony]

It's a little later than it should have been but it's nice to see it actually arrive. I prefer the old design slightly though I appreciate the new one. I don't like the text on the dvd tray but the rest of the design is pretty decent. I hope the internals hold up much better but I'm sure they will.

[iwanttheagrocrag]

It kinda looks like an Alien-ware with those slats on the side, i like it alot. I'm definitely gonna upgrade sometime. Could be a little slimmer.

[xboxjason]

QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Jun 18 2010, 09:19 AM)

The problem was never the XClamps - it was a combination of poor BGA solder, poor reflow, and insufficient ventilation. All the Xclamp does is hold the heatsink in place while you remove the motherboard. The REAL work is done by the four screws that ensures there's enough pressure being applied to ensure good heat dissipation.

Except your wrong. All those 8 screws do is keep the board down to the aluminum frame. The problem with the X-clamps is that they only apply pressure to the back of the main-board in two small areas (centered behind the chips). With the amount of heat being generated, this system requires more pressure around the perimeter of the chips, such as found in the PS3 (even then the PS3's is only decent). Granted, while the X-clamp is the straw that broke the Camel's back, it's still the cause. Since the 360's launch I have fixed about a hundred Xbox 360s, including the Xenon that I purchased on launch-day. Once my Xenon gave me the 3RRoD in 2006 (a year after it's launch) I popped it open and replaced the X-clamps without so much as a reflow. It has since then seen over 6 times the amount of hours of use (including operating under extremely high temperatures in a pool house during the last few summers) and has NEVER even once given me the 3RRoD since.

With the newer 45nm 360s, the board does not deflect away from the chip as quickly or easily, since these chips emits much less heat, thus leaving the main-board in a more rigid state. Even with that said, I have had to repair a couple of Jaspers, but overall it shouldn't be nearly as big of an issue now.

This post has been edited by xboxjason: Jun 22 2010, 02:06 AM

[pablo0024]

i would not buy it, i dont understand the design they made, when i look at the picture the fan blades should be the opposite, like on any CPU or a graphics card, they push the air downwards to cool the heatsink

when i look the pics taken its like they push the air upwards, thats not correct, air should go to the heatsink, not upwards very strange method of cooling down a heatsink

[MadMaxGR]

QUOTE(pablo0024 @ Jun 23 2010, 06:04 AM)

i would not buy it, i dont understand the design they made, when i look at the picture the fan blades should be the opposite, like on any CPU or a graphics card, they push the air downwards to cool the heatsink

when i look the pics taken its like they push the air upwards, thats not correct, air should go to the heatsink, not upwards very strange method of cooling down a heatsink

Not strange at all. Pushing air inside will not help the system to cool down. That would help only on open case design, means without covers. When you have a box, you want to throw the hot air OUT as soon as possible. The air circulates and the new room temperature air comes from the top to cool down the system again. With the CPU fan the hot air comes out from the case from the opening the case has and I would be surprised if they did the opposite thing. So, nothing strange at this point.

[relaxxx]

QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Jun 18 2010, 05:19 AM)

 The REAL work is done by the four screws that ensures there's enough pressure being applied to ensure good heat dissipation.

LOL! You mean the real DAMAGE is being done by the four black screws that completely cancels out the x-clamps balanced spring tension with too much UNBALANCED Force. Combined with extreme heat cycles, this is what stresses and cracks the BGA.

[thwack]

QUOTE(relaxxx @ Jun 23 2010, 12:24 PM)

LOL! You mean the real DAMAGE is being done by the four black screws that completely cancels out the x-clamps balanced spring tension with too much UNBALANCED Force. Combined with extreme heat cycles, this is what stresses and cracks the BGA.

 

So explain (H)ANA, Southbridge and so on failures - it's almost mainly poor lead free solder, insufficient heatflow etc that causes it - it's great you have a theory, but in every thread? (And I suspect you didn't really LOL)

Anyhow, I think the internals of this new revision look good, and the specs are decent as well (although I do still like my memory card - USB just smacks of PC). Think the reason why the aesthetics bother me a little are it looks PC - I've been gaming since the Atari (and if you can call it gaming the ZX80), and have always been a grumbler when consoles started having essentially PC's inside them. Took me a year after release to buy an original Xbox. But - I'm still going to get one.

[xboxjason]

QUOTE(thwack @ Jun 23 2010, 01:12 PM)

 

So explain (H)ANA, Southbridge and so on failures - it's almost mainly poor lead free solder, insufficient heatflow etc that causes it - it's great you have a theory, but in every thread? (And I suspect you didn't really LOL)
 

Out of the hundred or so I've fixed, not a single one of them had anything wrong with the (H)ANA chip. I fixed many 360s with 3RRoD, 1RRoD, E-71, E-72, E-73, and E-74 all by re-flowing the GPU and removing the x-clamps. I even had one 360 that came from my supplier that was brand new and DOA. A GPU re-flow was all it needed.

While I don't deny some people having problems with the (H)ANA, I don't believe that was a huge problem. It's no different than the number of 360s that scratch discs, or do not read discs. There will always be failures in many components.

This post has been edited by xboxjason: Jun 23 2010, 02:21 PM

[thwack]

I agree - I too have fixed many. many 360's and generally it's the  GPU, however around 15-20% of them have been other components on the board. However that wasn't my point - my point is that the solder and airflow is cack - this is the leading issue with 360's - the early one's produce more heat + poor airflow + bad solder = bork. The other components produce less heat themselves, and therefore are less likely to suffer from this problem. I also find it difficult to belive if you've fixed that many 360's you've never come accross a HANA problem.

X-clamp replacement does not improve on the design of the original x-clamps, all this does is secure the GPU/CPU in a different way, forcing pressure on the chip die in a different way, and in many cases allowing the GPU solder balls to be pushed back down onto the BGA - a true fix should simply involve reflow/reball and no x-clamp replacement. Lets not turn this thread into the usual diatribe of pro and con on the x-clamps.

Anyhow, back on topic - after looking at some more piccies of the new 360, I am starting to come round to the aesthetics........

[relaxxx]

Other than idiot botch jobs I've never seen any failures other than GPU, out of hundreds...

And there's a few reasons why the CPU does not die in spite of the black screws; The heatsink has X shaped legs that can absorb a bit of the case mount pressure. The CPU itself is smaller so heat expansion itself is not as severe as with the GPU. Also the CPU does not have an EDRAM DIE causing more uneven heat expansion towards the rear side.

Yes, the lead free solder is more brittle and cracks, remove unnecessary pressures and heat and it will last.

This post has been edited by relaxxx: Jun 23 2010, 04:12 PM

[xboxjason]

QUOTE(thwack @ Jun 23 2010, 03:12 PM)

X-clamp replacement does not improve on the design of the original x-clamps, all this does is secure the GPU/CPU in a different way
 

I will not be carrying on off-topic, so I will just have to agree to disagree with you, as I have never had a Xbox360 come back to me with a 3RRoD error that had it's x-clamps removed while it was new (out of the box).


This post has been edited by xboxjason: Jun 23 2010, 04:34 PM

[norite]

Gotta get me one of these purely for the pleasure of taking it apart.....