xboxscene.org forums

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

Author Topic: You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard  (Read 786 times)

pinkerton

  • Archived User
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 183
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2010, 12:13:00 PM »

QUOTE(wassco @ Mar 9 2010, 05:51 PM) View Post

Get back on topic plz, and when you start the *stop being a child* it doesnt matter how many posts you've made, how old you are, or what you've done. you automatically put yourself in the same class as those your insulting. Cuzz in the end your no better then them.

end result, 360 needs a new polish, cuzz things arent goen to well for M$ i think, they need a fresh look, like the other guys did..

look how well there sales increased...(they did dont argue this plz)

now... board changes... back on topic... here we go...


 jester.gif  jester.gif  jester.gif  jester.gif
Logged

relaxxx

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 504
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2010, 12:54:00 PM »

QUOTE(wassco @ Mar 9 2010, 01:51 PM) View Post

now... board changes... back on topic... here we go...



I agree, someone mentioned having the CPU/GPU both on one chip on the right side. That would be a good starting point idea, at lest have both processors off to the right as it's probably not feasible to have all CPU, GPU and EDRAM on one substrate but they may be able to at least share the same heatsink provided MS can design and mount it properly.

Also Heatsink fins should be accessible to users through some sort of access lid/door so they can clean the lint off the things. This issue is killing PS3 as well. You should not have to void your warranty to keep it running cool.

Logged

ccfman2004

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 760
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2010, 09:10:00 PM »

Come on Slim360.

I also want to see them put the CPU and GPU on one chip with minimum of a 45nm process or smaller.
Logged

hamwbone

  • Recovered User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2121
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2010, 10:00:00 PM »

Change the colors of the ROL board so that when it gets an RROD it actually flashes blue - and make it a square instead of a ring.  Then it would be a BSOD (BLUE SQUARE OF DEATH) and would really cut down on the number of relevant searches and create a whole new "problem" and "confusion"  with windows BSODs. it would only cost 3 cents create a new mass confusion of epic proportions.
Logged

1nick9

  • Archived User
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 264
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2010, 12:52:00 AM »

haha love this...... can just image m$ thoughts on this...

"well im stumped.... 65nm dnt fix it"
"wat do we do now then??"
"i dunno.... out source it??"
"NO we must not giv credit were its due... just hire a fresh smart uni kid n steal his 6months of hard work fixin our fuck ups, as our own"
"perfect... i will put the ad up"
Logged

juggahax0r

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 602
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2010, 11:39:00 AM »

Yea relaxxx , you do need to learn some respect for your elders , RDC has a lot fo good posts. The thread you got shut down by him was because you were not making any valid points , basically you tried arguing with someone who knows more than you and you got upset because everyone was attacking your method. You doctored the team hybrid picks claimed that the x-clamps don't touch the MoBo when i have seen them with my own eyes doing so. A lot of speculation is all it was and was pointed out to you several times. I have been a member for years but i forgot my old nickname and had to make a new one. Just forget it MS wouldn't hire you anyways , you don't have a degree in electrical engineering.
 Sorry to the guy who replied to me about having a Ph.D and all that , someone with a BS might be happy with they pay MS gives them for that job. But let;s face it most kids on here do not have any clue what they are talking aboot.
Logged

ccfman2004

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 760
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2010, 03:04:00 PM »

QUOTE( @ Mar 10 2010, 01:43 PM) View Post

u guys realize all they would have to do to fix rrod/e74/the rest of the TYPICAL errors with the current setup is, FIX THE METAL CAGE!!! ADD PROPER STANDOFFS! and make sure the board dont bend. All u guys complaining bout heat and lack of airflow or whatever should realize a few things. Theres plenty of gpu's out there running same temps if not higher. the board is bent before u even turn it on the first time!!! the gpu side has all the wiggle room it wants. if m$ were to have put the cpu on that side of the board it would be the cpu u guys claim is running too hot and doesnt have enuff cooling... xclamp standoffs are too high so they clear the 2 metal humps in the cage (4.5mm-ish) the outter edge screws pull he board down to around 3mm-ish high. As long as there ISNT a proper standoff system these problems wont ever go away. Unless u remove 100% of the heat there WILL BE thermal expansion involved. look at the jaspers.... way less heat and same ol problems!!! cause they use the same ol pos metal cage. Foxxcon should have already known this ahead of time
UMMM, FAIL in every way possible....

With the 2 middle standoffs, I always grind them down to 3mm when applying the Advance Hybrid RRoD fix kit.  I have done this fix to many xbox's, mostly the old xenons, and the problems went away.  I also helps to use good thermal paste such as Arctic Silver 5 or Arctic MX-3.  Those lousy x-clamps put too much stress on the GPU and CPU and cause them to flex so much that the solder joints break due to excessive heating and cooling.

They should have never put the GPU under the DVD drive.
Logged

relaxxx

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 504
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2010, 05:39:00 PM »

QUOTE
' date='Mar 10 2010, 08:43 AM' post='4655776']
UMMM, FAIL in every way possible....


My only failure that I can tell is my inability to explain my solution. There is clearly a lack of communication/ understanding here. How can a freestanding heatsink detached from an uneven base apply ANY flexing torque on the motherboard?

IPB Image

This is what team hybrid claims is the problem!? The X-clamps free standing in this config DO NOT flex the board. it is pressure applied from the case as you even acknowledged that is the real problem. The solution is so simple!

Think of a string being held between only two points with opposing force, it will form a straight line from point A to point B. Now attach a third point and apply another force, the string is no longer a straight line. This is what happens to many 360 motherboards when the heatsink is fastened to the case.

Explain what it is exactly that is wrong with my sig so I can better explain myself and we can all grow and stop causing long term damage to our consoles.

Anyone here who apposes logical debate may get my apologies but NOT my respect, that is for certain!
Logged

juggahax0r

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 602
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2010, 06:35:00 PM »

QUOTE(relaxxx @ Mar 10 2010, 07:39 PM) View Post

My only failure that I can tell is my inability to explain my solution. There is clearly a lack of communication/ understanding here. How can a freestanding heatsink detached from an uneven base apply ANY flexing torque on the motherboard?

This is what team hybrid claims is the problem!? The X-clamps free standing in this config DO NOT flex the board. it is pressure applied from the case as you even acknowledged that is the real problem. The solution is so simple!

Think of a string being held between only two points with opposing force, it will form a straight line from point A to point B. Now attach a third point and apply another force, the string is no longer a straight line. This is what happens to many 360 motherboards when the heatsink is fastened to the case.

Explain what it is exactly that is wrong with my sig so I can better explain myself and we can all grow and stop causing long term damage to our consoles.

Anyone here who apposes logical debate may get my apologies but NOT my respect, that is for certain!


 Team hybrid did a lot of testing to "prove" there point , they didn't just randomly come up with information. What exactly do you do relaxxx? Just taking out the black screws will not fix it that is really all your sig says that is any kind of instruction. If you do that then fan and shroud mod you aren't addressing the issue. Your picture is so blurry i almost wonder it it wasn't touching the motherboard and you didn't want us too see that. It is a minor detail to argue about , the MobO is definitely flexing on the sides when you screw it down around most of the plugs. Write us a tutorial , your thread about debunking the x-clamp myth would never have been taken seriously by anyone here , not with how you presented it , a lot of people have been replacing x-clamps and doing other various repair methods that worked for them , yours is not even known. Write up a clean unbiased tutorial , that explains in detail what you do AFTER an xbox red rings , preventative steps do not count as you can't guarantee the machine would have broken down as it does not suffer a 100% failure rate. The metal cage is a big issue the x-clamps may provide sufficient force and i don't think the amount of flex from the heatsink standoffs is significant enough too cause the separation of the chip from the board , it is the cheap solder and the great deal of heat that causes the most problems.  I really don't see any logical debating going on with you man , it's more arrogance. Write us up a tut as i said before , and open a new thread with a less arrogant title than debunking the x-clamp myth , provide detailed pictures of your own work don't edit someone elses , and show us a video of your fix working. That is what Team Hybrid did to show their "fix" so let's see it. If you do that you might actually get some credibility. Every idea will be taken seriously when presented in different light , a lot of people on here know more than you , they know a lot more than i do too i am no expert i learn by reading what others do , i would even be willing to try whatever you are doing just to give it a shot , their are many different ways people "fix" the errors none are wrong as long as they work.
Logged

mgeno216

  • Archived User
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2020, 07:11:00 PM »

Actually i am with relaxxx.  I feel for the most part people were just blindly following.  His picture showed that for that xbox the heatsinks/xclamps weren't causing flexing.  I am not offering an explantion as to why removing the xclamps fixed so many xboxs even if it was just for a short bit.  What i am confident about is the two standoffs in the middle of the cage being too high.  They created an equal wave in pressure across the motherboard (if you know what i mean).  
My only explanation as to way the xclamps helped would be that it removed one more pressure point.  I am not saying that the xclamps themselves are doing this, but the screws are.  So again i agree with relaxxx on that.

This picture is extremely exagerated, but i hope it makes the point.  The blue things are the standoffs that are too high.
(IMG:http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy113/mgeno216/xclamps.png)

My condensed point: Standoffs are way too TALL!  
I dont think this is any revolutionary break through, but i think it is something to think about.

Logged

ccfman2004

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 760
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2020, 07:31:00 PM »

Except you are forgetting one thing.  The 2 center metal standoffs are too high in the earlier xbox revision.  The rest of the standoffs are 3mm in hight where as the 2 center standoffs are about 3.7mm high.  This causes an unnecessary bend in the middle of the motherboard.  This results in an arc in the board.

In much later revisions of the metal case, the 2 center standoffs are the proper hight.

Also the x-clamps have a black piece of plastic which also puts pressure on the motherboard too.

There is too much flexing and arcing combined with rapid heating and cooling of the CPU and GPU chips causes the majority of the problems.

If there were no flexing and arcing, you wouldn't see nearly as many problems.
Logged

relaxxx

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 504
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2020, 07:50:00 PM »


Picture yourself floating in space with a 360 motherboard. Your left index finger is pushing on the bottom of the board directly in the center of the processor. Your right index finger pressing on the top center of the processor. These are the only two points you can touch the board at. Now how then can you apply flexing pressure on that board?

You can not. This is exactly the way an X clamped heatsink applies pressure to the board, it does not apply pressure to any corner.

Only when the heatsink is attached to the case can it apply uneven flexing pressure.

People constantly claim that the X Clamp flexes the board, it does not! The whole replacement scheme is based on a myth and misunderstanding.

I'm talking about the cause of the failure and prevention, not RROD repair.
Logged

mgeno216

  • Archived User
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2020, 09:01:00 PM »

Relaxx i just pm'ed you
Logged

juggahax0r

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 602
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2010, 10:49:00 PM »

QUOTE(relaxxx @ Mar 10 2010, 09:50 PM) View Post

Picture yourself floating in space with a 360 motherboard.


 That should be the beginning of every tutorial on here dealing with the MoBo , i like that one.

 This is getting old , you are not getting the same point RDC was trying to make to you in your debunking post. A lot of people have done a lot of different things , your preventive steps don't count because every 360 will not fail , it just doesn't happen , and you don't know that what you did had any effect on whether it would ever break. So what do you do when you get a RROD xbox to fix? or are you such a god that you never have to fix them because your method is so great. I would bet that even with what you do they still fail just as equally as they would if you had done nothing , but  you would have to do 100s of them this way and have 0 failures too prove that what you did worked and so far you haven't provided any evidence to support your claims. a blurry picture doesn't prove anything , sharing results  is the only thing that can.  I don't take you at your word just saying you have prevented failure by doing this doesn't make the statement credible. In contrast a lot of people would vouch for the x-clamp replacement working , and some even do that as a preventive step and never see a failure , but it still can't  be proven that replacing the x-clamps preemptively saved it either.
Logged

MadMaxGR

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 846
You could design the next revision of the 360 motherboard
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2020, 02:33:00 AM »

I am sorry I didn't post a reply and took sometime but I was at a CISCO training all day, yesterday. Anyway I have to apologise opening a debate in this post. This has to stop now and get back to the subject please. Relaxxx when you are ready to debate on your methods please post a full tutorial and accurate scientific data and not assumptions. Like all said not all XBOXs fail.

Reminder: This post is for a new design from MS, not our methods to fix current XBOXs. Please create a new topic if you want to debate again.

Regards,
MADMAXGR
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4