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[norite]

Move the gpu out from under the DVD drive, move the cpu forward and put the gpu behind it, and give it a decent heatsink, or use one mahooosive fan cooled heatsink for both chips.

Stop using bga chips and go for zif style connectors for the cpu and gpu.

Bring all the ram to the top of the board and use vga mini heatsinks on em.

Use a decent quality mobo that doesn't warp as soon as you breath warm air on it (This will negate the need for x-clamps)

Make sure the standoffs are 100% level with each other.

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[garyopa]

QUOTE(norite @ Mar 11 2010, 07:39 AM)

Move the gpu out from under the DVD drive, move the cpu forward and put the gpu behind it, and give it a decent heatsink, or use one mahooosive fan cooled heatsink for both chips.
Use a decent quality mobo that doesn't warp as soon as you breath warm air on it (This will negate the need for x-clamps)

Your changes will not help.

Sony has done that already long time ago. -- Sony had a year of seeing 360's fail, before releasing their product. -- Sony uses a little thicker PCBoard. -- Sony has a massive heatsink / fan system -- Sony has try having gpu and cpu apart, side to side, left to right, ram on both sides, ram on one side, less ram, smaller PCBoard area, with tighter clamps. -- All Sony PS3's fail also. -- I repair dozens of PS3's per week.

[Martinchris23]

So we're left in a quandry: We either have to concede that games consoles MUST have a larger footprint to cater for the necessary heat dissipation for the current and future power consumption, or reduce the performance and keep a smaller footprint.

Performance is only going to go up - no console manufacturer is going to release a successor with less performance.

How many people would buy the next Xbox if it was in a midi tower case? Not that many outside of these pages I would imagine..

[[TONE]]

guys listen, on EVERY 360 ive taken apart new and old. the board is bent from day 1. this is because the middle of the board is higher then the outter edges. take a brand new 360. strip it down to just the metal cage and board. then remove the outter edge screws. u will notice none of the ports line up. the board is PULLED down by these screws to a height that is lower then the xclamp standoffs. so in a sense yes the xclamps are applying upward force and the outter edge screws are adding downward force to the board. The xclamps alone are fine but when u factor in the fact the board is pulled down then that means these clamps are going to work harder to push up. But i will say this again. the ONLY issue is a lack of PROPER standoffs. perfectly flat and secure. this is why the CPU which is on the short side of the board doesnt get effected. it just doesnt have the wiggle room the gpu side has nor does it have the bend as serious as on the gpu side. M$ should have scrapped these metal cages a long time ago. they know the problem but i assume they spent way too much money ahead of time on these cages to turn back now. these type of products MUST use the same methods we use in our pc's!!! and i wish people would stop quoting team hybrid or whoever as if their tut is the best around... they tell u to use plastic credit card pieces.... FAIL! they tell u to use foam to apply pressure.... FAIL! u want everything FLAT and SECURE!!!  for giggles u should all go get a piece of plexi, mark off the holes that are in the 360 board. fit real pc standoffs in said holes (if ur creative u can do so) then fix the board to the plexi with screws on the underside that are countersunk so it sits flat of course. and tell me how long it takes for that board to rrod/e74. ive had one in a plexi case using my own standoffs for about 3 years now. and yes it was rrod b4 i FIXED it. now its one of my jtag boxes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Mar 11 2010, 03:46 PM)

So we're left in a quandry: We either have to concede that games consoles MUST have a larger footprint to cater for the necessary heat dissipation for the current and future power consumption, or reduce the performance and keep a smaller footprint.

Performance is only going to go up - no console manufacturer is going to release a successor with less performance.

How many people would buy the next Xbox if it was in a midi tower case? Not that many outside of these pages I would imagine..

the case size is fine, it could be smaller. the heat is fine it could be higher. the power consumption goes down after time and different revisions. the fans are fine, but a bit on the loud side. trapped heat ISNT the problem. and theres no way of removing 100% of the heat which would be the only way to stop thermal expansion. its all about the right design all the way thru. 1 little mistake can make a small problem HUGE

QUOTE(garyopa @ Mar 11 2010, 03:37 PM)

Your changes will not help.

Sony has done that already long time ago. -- Sony had a year of seeing 360's fail, before releasing their product. -- Sony uses a little thicker PCBoard. -- Sony has a massive heatsink / fan system -- Sony has try having gpu and cpu apart, side to side, left to right, ram on both sides, ram on one side, less ram, smaller PCBoard area, with tighter clamps. -- All Sony PS3's fail also. -- I repair dozens of PS3's per week.

AMEN, whats up gary?? long time no see (for me anyways)

[garyopa]

QUOTE(TONE @ Mar 11 2010, 09:59 AM)

ive had one in a plexi case using my own standoffs for about 3 years now. and yes it was rrod b4 i FIXED it.
AMEN, whats up gary?? long time no see (for me anyways)

You have any pictures of your plexi-case?

I am sure having a flat 360 board would help, but over time the board will still rrod or now these days E74, just like the PS3 it takes longer to breakdown then a 360, but when it does, it does.

I am around on this site lurking, make an odd post here and there, when I have time or there is a good point to be made or debate to talk about.

I spend most of my morning work hours fixing crappy PS3's now, and then I spent most of my online 'net time taking care of http://psx-scene.com as I been the hosting admin for that site now for almost a year.

Any free time I have, I spend working on some neat FPGA projects and other embedded technology for myself and other people under contract, like I have for the last 20 odd years now.

[DARKFiB3R]

I don't see why console makers always have to have an odd shaped box, I wish they'd all have gone with the Hi-Fi/DVD player form factor from the start. You get tons of room to play with (just make it taller if you need more) and it integrates into storage solutions that have been on the market for decades. Yeah I know they want to stand out from the crowd, but once it's under the telly or in a unit/rack, who gives a fuck? It's what's happening on the screen that matters.

[mgeno216]

I don't think the shape is wierd.  The metal chasis is normally shaped, just a rectangle.  The plastic case makes no different to the console, like you said, it is only the proformance that matters.  i don't think that is really an issue.  I think microsft might want to just move on with a new console.  They have tried 4 times to get this right  and the best learning tool is making mistakes.

[juggahax0r]

QUOTE(mgeno216 @ Mar 11 2010, 08:54 PM)

I don't think the shape is wierd.  The metal chasis is normally shaped, just a rectangle.  The plastic case makes no different to the console, like you said, it is only the proformance that matters.  i don't think that is really an issue.  I think microsft might want to just move on with a new console.  They have tried 4 times to get this right  and the best learning tool is making mistakes.

 I don't think MS is wanting to make a new console. They have made the statement a few times that they see the 360 being around for the next 10 years. That could also be a ploy to keep the consumer buying it for a little while , but i doubt it. they will eventually get it right , hopefully the person they hire will fix it for good. I'm not sure if they have hired new people for every revision but maybe this is a signal that they will be making a major change to the MoBo for the 5 year anniversary in Nov , that and project Natal is supossed to be coming out for the holiday maybe it has something to do with that.
 I don't really think the best learning tool is letting the consumer find out what your mistakes are. It pissed a lot of people off when a few days after they got their 360 it started flashing red and not working. On top of it it cost them (MS) a ton of money to replace them all , add in the fact that they sold them below cost just so people could afford them , and you are looking at a big mistake by MS. It isn't the first one they have made , and won't be the last. When you get right down too it though , besides the RROD issue when they are working they are a pretty nice gaming machine , besides the fact that you can upgrade a PC too the max i like it better than PC gaming.

[ccfman2004]

They wanted their console out BEFORE Nintendo and Sony got theirs out.