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[CHLSE]

well when you buy your console second handed it doenst mean you wont have warranty. Your only screwed when the previous owner registerd it on its own name. so check that out. if he didnt dont do anything to your console. unless you want to open it up for others reasons like flashing the firmware. then it might be a good idea to take preventive measures.

preventive measures arent always required. i have a console already running 9 months after a x-clamp fix. and never did any cooling mods. but yeah to prevent is always better than to cure

[RBJTech]

Take a look at the 'X-Clamp' design - have a think about how it actually works - it is simply a 4 way spring that pushes the center of the GPU chip itself UP (fromt UNDER the board) onto a FIXED heatsink (that is screwed SOLID onto the base of the case).

The board is NOT fixed (only by a few outside edge screws) - therefore the only 'movement' is thermal.

The RROD is caused by the board flexing (due to the heat in the chip case and/or heatsink) but the chip staying solid (due to the X-clamps) - so the opposite of what most people think...

Thermal cycles / crap lead free / poor quality solder balls in the first place etc will all cause the solder joint  to break (regardless of 'cooling') - but this is not caused by the X-clamps ...

If the x-clamps were a contributing factor to the RROD - do you not think that after spending a Billion replacing them all, MS may have changed the design ...

All IMO of course ...

[Wilhelm_I]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Sep 10 2008, 11:46 PM)

Take a look at the 'X-Clamp' design - have a think about how it actually works - it is simply a 4 way spring that pushes the center of the GPU chip itself UP (fromt UNDER the board) onto a FIXED heatsink (that is screwed SOLID onto the base of the case).

The board is NOT fixed (only by a few outside edge screws) - therefore the only 'movement' is thermal.

The RROD is caused by the board flexing (due to the heat in the chip case and/or heatsink) but the chip staying solid (due to the X-clamps) - so the opposite of what most people think...

Thermal cycles / crap lead free / poor quality solder balls in the first place etc will all cause the solder joint  to break (regardless of 'cooling') - but this is not caused by the X-clamps ...

If the x-clamps were a contributing factor to the RROD - do you not think that after spending a Billion replacing them all, MS may have changed the design ...

All IMO of course ...

Yes thats true but the problem is that the force applied from below is much higher because it is only this extremely tiny tip in the center that pushes it up.
So the pressure applied from below is like 16 times as high.
The temperature will sure have effects on the flexing process since it easier deforms when it gets hot but without the X-Clamps the temp flexing would only be temporary...

The fact that it is fixed to the case does not mean a thing since the board will just deform lower, there is enough room in between x-clamps and bolts, it is not fixed just as you said.

The chip doesnt stay solid it deforms as well I have seen this on a lot of mainboards...

And leadfree solder is used in everything today that was built in the last 4 years so we would see this phenomenon occur much more also for other devices....
An interesting thing to look at it is this -> Tin Whiskers but this theory only fits for 0020 360s...

M$ also got a reputation to loose and if they would release to the public that it was such a small mistake that they couldnt fix in 3 years then a lot of angry customers would file law suits against them like in the past...
And M$ never wanted to make profits with this console they always sold it under price, it was just WIndows key to the living room...

Wilhelm

[RBJTech]

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Sep 11 2008, 07:46 AM)

Yes thats true but the problem is that the force applied from below is much higher because it is only this extremely tiny tip in the center that pushes it up.
So the pressure applied from below is like 16 times as high.
The temperature will sure have effects on the flexing process since it easier deforms when it gets hot but without the X-Clamps the temp flexing would only be temporary...

The fact that it is fixed to the case does not mean a thing since the board will just deform lower, there is enough room in between x-clamps and bolts, it is not fixed just as you said.

The chip doesnt stay solid it deforms as well I have seen this on a lot of mainboards...

And leadfree solder is used in everything today that was built in the last 4 years so we would see this phenomenon occur much more also for other devices....
An interesting thing to look at it is this -> Tin Whiskers but this theory only fits for 0020 360s...

M$ also got a reputation to loose and if they would release to the public that it was such a small mistake that they couldnt fix in 3 years then a lot of angry customers would file law suits against them like in the past...
And M$ never wanted to make profits with this console they always sold it under price, it was just WIndows key to the living room...

Wilhelm

I'm not sure that we are disagreeing ! I'm simply saying that the X-Clamp does not cause the flexing - the heat does (which you agree with) - so in answer to the OP's question - no, there is no need to replace the X-Clamps ...

[Wilhelm_I]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Sep 11 2008, 01:29 PM)

I'm not sure that we are disagreeing ! I'm simply saying that the X-Clamp does not cause the flexing - the heat does (which you agree with) - so in answer to the OP's question - no, there is no need to replace the X-Clamps ...

I still dont agree on that completely but I guess to leave the end open is the smartest idea since this will be a never ending conversation...

To get back to topic let me quote you:
"no, there is no need to replace the X-Clamps ... "

Wilhelm