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[Wilhelm_I]

QUOTE(strife18 @ Oct 14 2008, 06:04 AM)

Full Mobo:


Hope these pictures work.
If you see anything that could help me out that would be great.
Thanks!

So far all looks good, try to keep the timings and change them a little bit, recently I have been reflowing my stuff like that 1 minute on low to preheat then 4 minutes on high and then another minute on low but meanwhile you move away further and further from the mobo to reduce temperature, in this way it will not cool down rapidly...
And use less thermal compound this is way too much, just an ultra thin layer, that is almost transparent already...

QUOTE(raptor18 @ Oct 14 2008, 09:32 AM)

So i did the wilhelm fix on the GPU only (and the 12v fan mod). Then the xbox started up but froze. So i did the fix on the CPU too.
However, after i did it, and started the xbox i got 2 blinks IMMEDIATLEY (it did startup just before).
What could it be? Does the CPU overheat that fast?

Raptor

Ye , take the CPU heatsink off and check if there is an imprint of thermal compound on it, if not take off the cc pieces and use sand paper to make them thinner, also take care of what I told strife, then it should not overheat anymore and the freezing GPU will need some more tweaking, like adjust the screws slightly til it goes away...

QUOTE(HopOnRocks @ Oct 14 2008, 08:45 PM)

I just found out about this fix the other day and it seems really interesting. I've had my 360 break in the past so I have repaired with the regular x-clamp fix and it just broke again the other day. I originally did the fix back in April so it has been working for some time now.
I opened my 360 up because I figured I would have to do it again but I completely forgot to check out what type of error code I am getting. My system turns on fine all the time but after about 10 minutes of play time I get graphical error suchs as green lines on everything, or a full lock up. Turn off the system, turn it back on and it works for another 10 minutes or so. I've only got the RROD once while my system has been acting up like this.
Now I don't know if I should go ahead and do this method or not because I'm unsure if it can help me out in any way. I was thinking if I were to put credit card pieces down I'd put them down in strips rather than little squares, wouldn't that work too?
I just took my 360 apart now and I noticed all that the majority of my nylon washers have melted together together with the metal ones. Are they safe to use again, or am I just wasting my time? I'd buy more but there is no where in town where I can buy them so I'd have to order online and wait a few weeks.

Anyone have any suggestions on what I should do? Any help is appreciated

Ye little stripes are actually better because you can sand them down more easily than the little squares...
If the nylon ones have really melted just get metal washers only...

And your error code will have been 0022 or E74 that the only one with vertical lines, will very likely need a reflow...

[Wilhelm_I]

QUOTE(arvkova @ Oct 14 2008, 09:07 PM)

Well, after the first attempt I didn't see any difference in the flexing level of the GPU, so I bent the X-Clamp some more and still nothing after two days. Then I bent it more and it got very hard to fix it to the heat-sink. Left it for two days and still nothing

I'm going to try with the thick square pieces and the x-clamp replacement and see it there's any difference...

QUOTE(XXpMuneyXX @ Oct 15 2008, 06:43 PM)

OK So I did the Xclamp by your tutorial. I can get the xbox to work fine for about 8 startups, then it will first give the E74, then the RROD 0020. I tighten some more screws, same thing happens. What should i do?

try to loosen them a bit 0020 is because of too much tension most times, when it heats up the pressure increases.
You should only end up with E74, if this one keeps appearing even after adjusting it more you will have to reflow the (H)ANA chip with a heatgun...

QUOTE(arvkova @ Oct 15 2008, 07:04 PM)

Argh! I just noticed that I knocked off a couple of caps on the bottom of the GPU
I think it happened when I last tried to fix the original clamp harder. Wilhelm, do you happen to know what is the value of that cap and where can I get those?

Dont have the values for these and cant get them either, the only one who might have the values is RDC, however I got two spare mobos and could desolder+ ship the parts to you if you are interested...

QUOTE(Skv012a @ Oct 15 2008, 07:24 PM)

This was the first GOOD tut I found. Here's what I did differently: I added 1mm squares of aluminum to the RAM chips instead of washers since they cover the whole chip and I omitted the padding squares on the GPU since my RAM padding did more than a good job helping level the heatsink. I'll have to play w/ my elite more to see just how well this worked, but it lost E74 immidiately after this fix.

I think that RAM padding is a very good idea and with it the padding around GPU only makes the sink lose contact, so its not necessary. CPU did fine with pads, so I let that one be until it proves otherwise. Lastly, don't use regular tape in areas with high heats- thats asking for a mess. Thermal grease did a fine job acting as glue until the sink was installed.

The heat isnt that high, max like 50°C is good for the stuff it doesnt melt at these temps...
Got one back after like 7 months and the tape was still in the same condition...

QUOTE(HopOnRocks @ Oct 15 2008, 09:25 PM)

So I went ahead and did this fix and I used tape instead of thermal paste. I didn't use strips of the credit card I decided to use little squares.
I turned on my 360 and it worked for about 2 secs and then it overheated. And it continues to overheat as soon as I turn it one. The system starts up like a plane taking off. The fans get louder and louder until they shutdown and I get the 2 rings.
Anyone have any idea how I can fix this? I am getting the error code 0012. So overheating according to some sites.
Maybe I used too much tape? or not enough thermal paste maybe? Any clues?

sand the pieces down a bit the heatsinks doesnt have any contact to the chip die...

QUOTE(namzuf9 @ Oct 16 2008, 01:27 AM)

It sounds like the credit card pieces may be too thick, take off the heatsinks and make sure that the thermal paste has made contact with them - you should be able to see an imprint of the microsoft text on them.

This happened to me the first time I did this fix, as advised I sanded the credit card down a little to reduce the thickness. Also make sure that the tape you are using is thin enough to not interfere with the heatsinks making contact with the GPU/CPU.

Ye it is really tricky because you must have the perfect thickness if it is too thick it might first overheat and the center of the chip will not be taken under pressure, if it is too thin the outer chip wont be taken under pressure, make sure that you use an extremely thin layer of thermal compound because if you use too much it wont overheat if the chip die doesnt have contact to the heatsink, it also needs pressure otherwise the fix will not work properly...

QUOTE(HopOnRocks @ Oct 16 2008, 03:52 AM)

Right after I made that post I took my Xbox apart again and checked the tape. It seemed that it was rising and probably a bit too thick. So I tore it all off and them placed the credit card pieces down with the thermal paste. Also recleaned the CPU/GPU and put new paste down, a little thicker and more even this time.
My Xbox worked fine right away and stayed on for about 20 minutes or so. I would have tested it longer but I had to go to work.
Anyways, I'm hoping this thing will do the trick. Even if I can get another few months out of it.

read my statement above...

QUOTE(J_star @ Oct 16 2008, 12:05 PM)

I just openend mine xbox, finding out that mine ram peaces already have some gum like stuff on it (back side).

I was wondering if you still need to put the metal washes on them for cooling?

This is the bottom RAM the washer is for the top RAM...

[Tik-Tok]

I'm unable to find 1mm thick nylon washers, only 2mm thick nylon washers and 1mm thick metal washers.

Would you reccomend using 2x 1mm metal washers, or just the 2mm nylon washer alone, or something else all together.

[HopOnRocks]

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 16 2008, 05:09 AM)

Ye little stripes are actually better because you can sand them down more easily than the little squares...
If the nylon ones have really melted just get metal washers only...

And your error code will have been 0022 or E74 that the only one with vertical lines, will very likely need a reflow...

You maybe right about the error code 0022, I know for sure it wasn't the E74 one though. At first I thought the washers melted together, but afterwards I noticed they were just stuck together very tightly but managable to take apart. I decided againest the strips afterwards too, they were too hard to tape down properly.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 16 2008, 11:04 AM)

sand the pieces down a bit the heatsinks doesnt have any contact to the chip die...

Yeah I didn't have to do this after. It appears that I used too much tape and that it was rising off of the squares. I later took all the tape off and helf the squares down with the paste. The Xbox has been working fine ever since. So thanks for this guide. I'm hoping to fix my friends system this weekend too.

[strife18]

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 16 2008, 02:39 AM)

So far all looks good, try to keep the timings and change them a little bit, recently I have been reflowing my stuff like that 1 minute on low to preheat then 4 minutes on high and then another minute on low but meanwhile you move away further and further from the mobo to reduce temperature, in this way it will not cool down rapidly...
And use less thermal compound this is way too much, just an ultra thin layer, that is almost transparent already...

Alright well I find it weird that I have heatgunned it twice and each time it did work....then stopped working again.  There is no flexing at all or any uneven pressure.  I might try to heatgun it again and maybe just use metal washers.  I've heard of nylon expanding and if so possibly screwing something up.  
As for thermal paste ive been using about that much maybe a bit less for all other times.  I read in one of your other posts that it could give the look of it being in contact but actually be too high and the credit cards not really working correctly.  Though if this was the problem you would think that it would create even pressure around the chip and then there would be a possibility of getting an overheat error.  
I don't know, it is just mind-boggling and frustrating that it doesn't work even though there are no signs saying there is something specific wrong.  It looks like the fixes that you have should work and then after a few times playing it goes back to 0102.  This is the reason im kinda thinking it has to be some sort of heat/expansion or cool/contraction problem after playing it a few times.

[Wilhelm_I]

QUOTE(Onimu @ Oct 17 2008, 12:14 AM)

My Falcon replace w/Credit card and X-clamp die today while playing with Forza 2. It last about month since. I rarely use this console. Maybe less then half hour a day. Well, I check your website show on rrod w/ S-code 0101 without video/audio mean something connection on usb port. I have never used that usb port. It must be the GPU problem again.

Also, how do you guys heatgun the falcon board? There're silicon pieces around the GPU area. Should remove it before heatgun. I'm surely the heat will melt that silicon pieces during heatgun job.

Nope the pieces are alright just leave em there they will assist you in the process because they keep the GPU and CPU in place

QUOTE(Tik-Tok @ Oct 17 2008, 12:23 AM)

I'm unable to find 1mm thick nylon washers, only 2mm thick nylon washers and 1mm thick metal washers.

Would you reccomend using 2x 1mm metal washers, or just the 2mm nylon washer alone, or something else all together.

Just use 2x 1mm metal washers, they will work fine

QUOTE(HopOnRocks @ Oct 17 2008, 07:21 AM)

You maybe right about the error code 0022, I know for sure it wasn't the E74 one though. At first I thought the washers melted together, but afterwards I noticed they were just stuck together very tightly but managable to take apart. I decided againest the strips afterwards too, they were too hard to tape down properly.
Yeah I didn't have to do this after. It appears that I used too much tape and that it was rising off of the squares. I later took all the tape off and helf the squares down with the paste. The Xbox has been working fine ever since. So thanks for this guide. I'm hoping to fix my friends system this weekend too.

Nice am glad it worked for you

QUOTE(strife18 @ Oct 17 2008, 07:44 AM)

Alright well I find it weird that I have heatgunned it twice and each time it did work....then stopped working again.  There is no flexing at all or any uneven pressure.  I might try to heatgun it again and maybe just use metal washers.  I've heard of nylon expanding and if so possibly screwing something up.  
As for thermal paste ive been using about that much maybe a bit less for all other times.  I read in one of your other posts that it could give the look of it being in contact but actually be too high and the credit cards not really working correctly.  Though if this was the problem you would think that it would create even pressure around the chip and then there would be a possibility of getting an overheat error.  
I don't know, it is just mind-boggling and frustrating that it doesn't work even though there are no signs saying there is something specific wrong.  It looks like the fixes that you have should work and then after a few times playing it goes back to 0102.  This is the reason im kinda thinking it has to be some sort of heat/expansion or cool/contraction problem after playing it a few times.

Hmm I doubt that it is overheating but if it is like that try to sand the stripes down slightly the next time, the thermal compound should leave a clear imprint on the heatsink, it might not be taking the chip die under perfect pressure still.
The reason why it fails can be heat but I would rather bet on the uneven pressure stuff.

[Wilhelm_I]

QUOTE(cky71321 @ Oct 20 2008, 09:46 AM)

Long story short, I fixed my RROD'd launch model last September with RBJtech's tutorial. The RROD resurfaced last night while I was trying to play the Endwar demo. Anyway, I can't seem to understand if your newer method can actually revive the box again since it's already been opened and modded. If you think it'll work, I would love to give it a try.

Most 360s that I repaired with it had been x-clamped already, like 90%, very rarely get sealed systems...
Depends on the error code really though and if it is CPU/GPU related how deformed the chip/mainboard is.
Get your secondary error code to make sure that the error can be fixed with it.

[cky71321]

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 20 2008, 11:14 AM)

Most 360s that I repaired with it had been x-clamped already, like 90%, very rarely get sealed systems...
Depends on the error code really though and if it is CPU/GPU related how deformed the chip/mainboard is.
Get your secondary error code to make sure that the error can be fixed with it.

Error code 0102, the same as I had last year. Looks like it's worth a shot to me.

[HopOnRocks]

My Xbox 360 died just now again. It appears I have the error code 0102.
Now you said that I could sand down the credit card pieces, but couldn't I just redo the whole thing with a slightly thinner credit card? I think if I sand them down I'd probably get uneven edges.
Now I just noticed a guide from a link in your sig that I could heatgun it. Should I do that, or would you recommend I try your method again with thinner pieces first.
http://xbox-experts....p?n=heatgunisol

[Wilhelm_I]

QUOTE(XXpMuneyXX @ Oct 20 2008, 06:10 PM)

ok So did the replacement Via your tutorial about 2 weeks ago,  I get it running then it craps out after 15 mintues (max), been fiddling with screws for two weeks now, whats my problem? Will adjusting the screws fix me? or is it a lost cause. Also have put the penny trick in, and out, baked it before, and just cant get past the 15 minute hump.

Hmmm.
Do you still know your initial error code?
It really depends on the actual issue and baking it is never a real way to fix it, you will either have to find the proper setting with the screws or if you cant get it to work at all without overheating you will have to heatgun it.
Get your error code first though, you might be trying to fix the wrong thing...

QUOTE(cky71321 @ Oct 20 2008, 08:27 PM)

Error code 0102, the same as I had last year. Looks like it's worth a shot to me.

QUOTE(HopOnRocks @ Oct 20 2008, 08:46 PM)

My Xbox 360 died just now again. It appears I have the error code 0102.
Now you said that I could sand down the credit card pieces, but couldn't I just redo the whole thing with a slightly thinner credit card? I think if I sand them down I'd probably get uneven edges.
Now I just noticed a guide from a link in your sig that I could heatgun it. Should I do that, or would you recommend I try your method again with thinner pieces first.
http://xbox-experts....p?n=heatgunisol

Sure you could but on the other hand this one might already be too thin then, the sanding keeps it even, what works best for me is to take the 4 stripes, put em on a piece of tape, so that it forms a panel like and then you sand it...
It becomes even then, sanding a single stripe is indeed a bit difficult and will not work too well...

Try it again with thinner pieces for sure, heatgunning should always only be used as a last resort.

[__Blaz0__]

extended error code is 1022.  checked the AV cable with a good one, not that, n=so I guess only thing left is encoder chip.

[Rickets06]

Hey guys, my cousins xbox had RROD 0020 (overheating?) and it's been about 4 weeks or so, and it started to freeze during the xbox splash animation and then it red ringed shortly afterwards 0102 (error in the digital back bone, ram, gpu/cpu)

So I tried my own version of your improved xclamp mod Wilhelm and I cleaned up the old thermal paste and added fresh paste.

It didn't work and I tried "baking" for the first time. I put the dvd drive in and put the fan face down on the cpu heatsink (blowing air IN, not sure if that's the best but it's easier)
I waited about 1:30 and shut it off, later on, it was still 0102.
I tried again and baked it for 2:00 and the fan reved up a little so I stopped it. Later on, it was great, I put it all back and played a game, and it froze (no sound, still picture) about 30 minutes in. Turning it on again gave 0102 again.
Took it all apart and baked it for 3:00 and it worked and later I played for maybe 10 minutes and it froze...

So, now, perhaps the fault is under the CPU and I should remove the dvd drive and the fan and let the CPU get hotter...
Or maybe I need to consider tightening my screws a bit as soon as the 360 has gotten hot. Do you think I need to let it cook so long that I get 2 red lights?

PS: hopefully the fault isn't under the ram... maybe I should find a couple washers to put on top? But I have a feeling the MOBO needs to be heatgunned  

Guys, thanks so much for reading and shedding light on all this stuff, you're amazing  

[strife18]

Hey,
So i can get my xbox to work again after heatgunning.  It goes green lights and everything for a couple days and then stops and goes back to the 0102 problem initially.  It is the same as before  Im using nylon washers less thermal paste and have not received any overheating issues at all.  I use the credit card pieces on the corners too.  I do not move the Mobo until cooled and I do not move the Xbox after playing for the few days so I can't blame it on something hitting something loose.  You saw the pictures before and everything seems in place and I'm having a hard time explaining why it stops if I change nothing.  I know your prevailing theory is uneven pressure/stress on the mobo creating bad connection on GPU/CPU but there is no stress being put on them.  There is holes in the chassis giving plenty of room for my screws, the only other thing putting pressure on the mobo is the weight of the heatsinks and the screws holding the mobo in the case.  

Do you have any other theories or anything that I may be overlooking in the ways of pressure or stress?

[Brian X360]

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 21 2008, 11:47 PM)

Hmmm.
Do you still know your initial error code?
It really depends on the actual issue and baking it is never a real way to fix it, you will either have to find the proper setting with the screws or if you cant get it to work at all without overheating you will have to heatgun it.
Get your error code first though, you might be trying to fix the wrong thing...
Sure you could but on the other hand this one might already be too thin then, the sanding keeps it even, what works best for me is to take the 4 stripes, put em on a piece of tape, so that it forms a panel like and then you sand it...
It becomes even then, sanding a single stripe is indeed a bit difficult and will not work too well...

Try it again with thinner pieces for sure, heatgunning should always only be used as a last resort.

Is this new x-clamp method permanant because i just got RROD again from standard x-clamp.  

[CrackHour]

QUOTE(Brian X360 @ Oct 25 2008, 02:24 AM)

Is this new x-clamp method permanant because i just got RROD again from standard x-clamp.  

Hey I think all this work you guyz have done to try and help with these issues are great and all, but instead of going through all the trouble with gpu dies, clamp pressure and so on, wouldn't it be easier to try and eliminate the real culprit which is heat. If you cooled the hell out of the box, wouldn't this prevent the board from warping to the point of dislodging the gpu or other components. How much would you need to cool it by to eliminate these problems.  These solutions seem more reactive than proactive, not knocking them if they work. Just wonder if another approach is needed.  I mean if Microsoft is designing smaller chips to put in newer versions and eventually two chips on one die and smaller chips mean less heat. Then it's pretty clear that the real issue is heat. Obviously once the damage is done, it's too late. But if they (Microsoft) sees excessive heat as the problem, then sounds probable that a good way of preventing these types of problems would require excessive cooling.  No?