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[Wilhelm_I]

The flatter the head the better if it is too high the mobo will flex and you will have to drill holes for the screws

[SergeantNapalm]

I see. let me make sure I understand this.... the way you are describing this is that I simply use very flat screws and let the Mobo sit free in the case? It seems it would be much more secure and safer as well to keep the Mobo fastened to the case by widening the holes and feeding the screws through the Mobo AND the case. But if widening the holes is unnecessary, and the xbox is happy with the Mobo sitting free in it, it would definitely be easier t leave the holes on the bottom of the case AS IS and simply not use them to secure the Mobo...

Anyways, Got all the parts, got the heat sinks off, currently I am cleaning off the chips... everything is going good. I'm following LawDawg's tutorial.  

BTW, LawDawg's tutorial isn't outdated now is it?

[Wilhelm_I]

Well you could extend the screws through the case but then you will need longer screws and 2 additional washers for each screw...
Look for RBJTechs tutorial if you want to screw through the metal case.
If you want to do lawdawgs take a look on mine it is basically an improved version of his

[SergeantNapalm]

Nice, thanks for the quick reply. Thats a good tutorial you wrote. Reading it, I noticed that the nylon washers I bought are 2mm thick.... So I'll have to replace those. Also, the screws I bought have 3.5mm thick heads (the .5 accounts for the rounded top they have), so they whole assembly will stick out about 5.5mm. is there enough clearance between the Mobo and the case?

[Wilhelm_I]

QUOTE(SergeantNapalm @ Aug 10 2008, 11:43 AM)

Nice, thanks for the quick reply. Thats a good tutorial you wrote. Reading it, I noticed that the nylon washers I bought are 2mm thick.... So I'll have to replace those. Also, the screws I bought have 3.5mm thick heads (the .5 accounts for the rounded top they have), so they whole assembly will stick out about 5.5mm. is there enough clearance between the Mobo and the case?

Thanks mate.
You could just use 1 2mm thick metal washer in case you cant get any 1mm ones...
And you will definitely have to screws holes through the case otherwise the mainboard will bend extremely.(the space in between is like 2mm^^)
Check out the end of my tutorial for that there is a picture...

[SergeantNapalm]

I see... could I just use the 1 2mm thick nylon washer between the board and the heat sink, since I already have those, instead of getting 2mm thick metal washers? Just out of curiosity, why does your tutorial say that I need 1mm nylon washers if I cannot get them? not trying to offend, just curious. Unless I misunderstood our last post... it looked like you were saying that you could not get 1mm thick nylon washers

And, just let me make sure I understand, there needs to be 2mm between the board and the heat sinks, hence 1mm metal washer and 1mm nylon washer, and the screw goes straight against the bottom of the board with no washer between the screw head and the board, and the screw needs to be less that 2mm thick to fit without cutting holes.

[SergeantNapalm]

And one other thing, what do I do when the 360 stops working again? is it just dead forever?

[Wilhelm_I]

QUOTE(SergeantNapalm @ Aug 10 2008, 11:16 PM)

I see... could I just use the 1 2mm thick nylon washer between the board and the heat sink, since I already have those, instead of getting 2mm thick metal washers? Just out of curiosity, why does your tutorial say that I need 1mm nylon washers if I cannot get them? not trying to offend, just curious. Unless I misunderstood our last post... it looked like you were saying that you could not get 1mm thick nylon washers

And, just let me make sure I understand, there needs to be 2mm between the board and the heat sinks, hence 1mm metal washer and 1mm nylon washer, and the screw goes straight against the bottom of the board with no washer between the screw head and the board, and the screw needs to be less that 2mm thick to fit without cutting holes.

Well if you cannot get 2x 1mm ones you will have to use 1x 2mm washer instead.
If you can you should use a spring washer in between screw and mainboard like suggested in my tutorial.
Make sure it fits though if not you will have to drill holes...

QUOTE(SergeantNapalm @ Aug 11 2008, 06:10 AM)

And one other thing, what do I do when the 360 stops working again? is it just dead forever?

Well then you will have to figure out whats wrong, maybe adjust the tightness of the screws etc.
If this doesnt get it back to work you will have to reflow with a heatgun

[SergeantNapalm]

My dad and I have been working on this together, he's a technical guy. As we looked back at the way the x-clamps were set up, we, well he, noticed something...

(IMG:http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/1442/xclampdiagramhg0.th.png)

this is the way Microsoft has the heat sinks held down... as you can see, the clamps and the heat sinks work in unison to act like 2 fingers pressing down on the CPU or GPU just in the right place.... now because the X-clamp fasteners are floating there is no excess pressure on the board from the x-clamps... by floating I mean that the heat sink hits the processor before the fasteners touch the mother board... all the pressure goes right on top of the processor not on the board.

Main point: Since the fasteners are floating, nothing touches the board at the fasteners 4 entry holes, then what causes the board to flex? because the way this is all set up, there isn't a way for the x-clamps to bend the board in any way.

BTW, I'm not trying to discredit you... or any one of the many many people who have fixed the 360 in this way.... I'm just afraid I don't understand how the x-Clamps flex the board.

Sorry if there was any confusion

[StrictPuppet]

QUOTE(SergeantNapalm @ Aug 11 2008, 10:14 PM)

I'm just afraid I don't understand how the x-Clamps flex the board.

You are exactly correct, they do not flex the board.  They also do not prevent the board from flexing, and since it is a very thin pcb it flexes quite easily.  Lead free solder is less tolerant of this and causes problems.
Many people accuse the x-clamps of being a design fault, but it is not.  The problem lies with the lightweight pcb and RoHS compliant solder.

[SergeantNapalm]

I see, thank you for clearing that up..... so let me see if I understand now. the point of replacing the X-Clamps is to hold the Heat Sink tighter against the CPU and GPU so that they can transfer the heat away more efficiently. Adding the new thermal paste also helps, and if I want to make sure this fix lasts I need to add some extra cooling to keep the board from flexing. So the board flexes naturally under heat??

Would or do you encourage the use of the X-Clamp Fix

This post has been edited by SergeantNapalm: Aug 12 2008, 08:27 AM

[StrictPuppet]

Well the purpose of the x-clamp fix isn't really to tighten the interface between the cpu/gpu die and the heatsink, but rather to correct a problem under the cpu/gpu to pcb interface.  It is by no means a "fix", but merely a last ditch effort at saving something that is dying.  A band aid may cover a bullet wound and stop the bleeding for a while, but it doesnt fix the underlying damage.

Would I do it, sure....if its going in the dumpster anyway, why not give it a shot.

Extra cooling..... put some ice on your bullet wound.... swelling may go down but..... well you get the idea.

[SergeantNapalm]

That makes sense. would the heat gun fix be more permanent? Bu from what I know, heatgunning is very risky... It seems like the best "fix" would be to actually desolder the GPU/CPU nd put them back on with a better solder.... I have already bought extra cooling and will install it when the 360 is up and running again.


Sorry if what I said was a little confusing... here's a rundown.

1. Will heatgunning it fix it permanently, if not how long will it last
2. Is it smart/safe to desolder and resolder the CPU/GPU, if so will it fix it permanently with the extra cooling

[StrictPuppet]

Well heat-gunning is also not an actual fix.  In order to get the solder balls under the gpu hot enough with a heat gun, you are way overheating nearby components.  Typically what happens when heat-gunning is you either don't get it hot enough so don't really do anything other than distort the mobo, or you get it too hot melting other nearby components, causing capacitors to fall off under the board, or rendering it completely unfix-able and still not re-flowing the bga.
The proper repair would be a removal of cpu/gpu and a re-balling of those components.  This is way beyond the scope of almost everyone on this board as it requires precision equipment that is extremely expensive.  The cost of having this professionally done is close to the cost of a brand new 360, and what are you left with??? still a thin easily distorted pcb.  
Aside from a production change by MS their really is no "fix", just various band-aids that may or may not buy you some extra play time.
If its busted already, throw whatever "fix" you want at it.... if it works for awhile, great,  If not...well it was busted anyway.