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[astr4twin]

QUOTE(lrod2344 @ Nov 17 2010, 01:57 AM)

Not entirely correct... case in point.... my friends console and NFS:

He was FORCED to update the dash from the disc in order to USE the game... once he updated only THEN was he able to USE as NFS IS an AP25 Title.... now again being as how his was an ORIGINAL Samsung Drive AP25 was ignored because the drive isnt AP25 capable... had his drive been a BenQ or Lite-on which IS AP25 capable he wouldve A: NOT been able to USE the backup because the backup was NOT SSV3 Nor is his FW LT+ so he wouldve FAILED AP25 checks and B: his console (although already banned) wouldve been flagged for a possible future banning. Previous titles MAY have the AP25 Security layer pressed and laying dormat as it was suggested SO LONG AGO and all those titles needed was a wake up call from our friend the Fall 2010 Dash Update AKA Kinect Dash so those titles (who knows how many) will also need to be re-burned using SSV3.....So to Sum it up if you want to USE ANY AP25 games online or offliine you will need to re-burn your discs using SSV3 when it becomes available AAAAANNNNND have LT+ firmware. these are just my conclusions.... it can always change in the future. Sorry Steveo....saw your post last minute and changed my wording...

Thank's for taking time out to clear that up for me but im still a little confised. I understand your saying it may or may not happen that they may have AP2.5 laying dormant within them and that a TU could wake them up but is it fact they will then fail to boot when using LT+ and not using SSV3 or just your views. Ill explain a little better.....

My original thoughts before you explained it were that the new LT+ will report that the game was original and pass the AP2.5 checks and it did not matter if it was SSV1,V2 or V3 so therefore i would be ok burning NFS on SSV1 or SSV2. Basically i thought the LT+ FW on the drive was doing all the work to pass checks and there was nothing really needed to pass on the backup disk side of things. I only thought SSV was to do with being safe on live if M$ ever checked.

So just to clarify things.....
To pass AP2.5 and a game to boot in future you will need to be using LT+ and a backup disc will have to contain SSV3?
LT+ and an AP2.5 game burned with SSV2 will not boot?


I have a large number of games and i think if i had to burn them all off again, not only would it be too time consuming, it would be really expensive. Even after this a year down the line M$ could do something else and then games would require SSV4 or similar so id have to start burning them all again.

I think if you factored all the time & money into it, it would work out cheaper to buy a new 360 and not to accept the update that awoke AP2.5 in older games. I could then play all my old games on one 360 and burn future games with SSV3 for the new 360.


As you say, we do not know if this will ever happen but i will not bother to burn my backups of AC:BH and NFS off yet untill i can patch the SSV3 files into them.

This post has been edited by astr4twin: Nov 17 2010, 08:25 PM

[ulv]

Hey dudes.
 
Quick question : I got a Samsung with iExtreme 1.51 (banned) - Fable 3 worked fine, tried AC : Brotherhood which made me update - and now I'm getting the unreadable disc error, on both Fable 3 and AC : Brotherhood. What's up with that? I thought Samsungs were meant to skip the AP25? Is this just me being unlucky or do I have to upgrade to 1.6X? Using activation-disc.

Cheers

edit : Oh wow, first post even though I've been a "member" since 03. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by ulv: Nov 17 2010, 11:54 PM

[trees415]

QUOTE(ulv @ Nov 17 2010, 03:53 PM)

Hey dudes.
 
Quick question : I got a Samsung with iExtreme 1.51 (banned) - Fable 3 worked fine, tried AC : Brotherhood which made me update - and now I'm getting the unreadable disc error, on both Fable 3 and AC : Brotherhood. What's up with that? I thought Samsungs were meant to skip the AP25? Is this just me being unlucky or do I have to upgrade to 1.6X? Using activation-disc.

Cheers

edit : Oh wow, first post even though I've been a "member" since 03. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

You should try updating to LT, I have a feeling its a wave conflict. AC Brotherhood is wave 9, so that is most likely the reason, whereas Fable III was wave 6. So maybe it freaked out your drive, but I would do the LT upgrade.   I myself have a samsung running with appropriate firmware, and Fable 3 plays fine, but I haven't tried AC brotherhood yet. I might pop it in though since I just finished Fable anyways.

[Resonate]

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=724089

[danthaman673]

QUOTE(greedy_boy_3 @ Nov 18 2010, 02:55 AM)

Yea you're probably right - although I still don't quite understand how the system could tell the difference between a bad read (due to scratch(es)) and simply receiving bad/incorrect data due to a messed up firmware/backup.  The thing is that from the user's point of view they will get a dirty-disc error regardless.  This in my opinion is poor on Microsoft's part.  If an AP2.5 check fails not because of a dirty disc, it still says 'dirty disc'.  Is that good programming?

That's a good point, I think some (probably earlier Hakd-FWs) Wont have the command (FW code doesnt include it perhaps because the banks needed were used for builtin 0800 or something..) But that was my guess when I heard ppl complaining they were getting 'Dirty Disc' as LT would surely have preserved all commands to be as undetectable as possible. Given that the data output from a backup would probably be predictable and may be used to flag boxes.

BTW:A couple of minutes ago A new 6mb TU (patch) just came out for BLACKOPS! Just in time! ;-) Here we go again ... (I might have a look @ the TU with le-fluffie if I could tear myself away from playing the game itself- If anyone is bored enough to have a go pls let us know ur results)

[Buzzcut]

c4e has already checked this update...poor guy, says hello in IRC and instantly gets a million people asking questions.

<*********> Morning c4eva, there's a title update for Black Ops, is this the kind of thing you'll log for new checks or do we assume that because a BO backup still works after the TU, that ap2.5 isn't active?
<+c4eva> already checked bo update,looks good,clean xval

I'm just waiting for the 100s of people to ask the same question without reading anything...again.

This post has been edited by Buzzcut: Nov 18 2010, 02:12 PM

[greedy_boy_3]

QUOTE(Buzzcut @ Nov 18 2010, 03:10 PM)

c4e has already checked this update...poor guy, says hello in IRC and instantly gets a million people asking questions.

<*********> Morning c4eva, there's a title update for Black Ops, is this the kind of thing you'll log for new checks or do we assume that because a BO backup still works after the TU, that ap2.5 isn't active?
<+c4eva> already checked bo update,looks good,clean xval

I'm just waiting for the 100s of people to ask the same question without reading anything...again.

To be fair I think c4eva enjoys what he does - helping people less knowledgeable than himself.  I also assume that donations are sufficiently high that he doesn't need a normal job (anyone know what country he resides in?).  He is doing what he loves doing - seems like a nice life to me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)  I think people should stop making him out to be almost unfortunate.  He is fortunate if anything, as he has been born with the intelligence to do what he does (i.e. comprehension of/fluidity in low-level programming).  I'm sure that as soon as he has had enough of this 'hard life', he will quit, and not a moment later.

Of course, having said all of that, I remain profusely grateful for his contribution.  I just never think, 'aww, poor c4eva sat in a room coding'.  Instead, I spend that time thinking, 'aww, poor 3rd World children who are starving to death at this very moment'.  Do you get it?  Good.

Note: Buzzcut, you should be more thankful to c4eva than most, as you are making £25 a pop by simply flashing his work to other people's drives.  Lol.

This post has been edited by greedy_boy_3: Nov 18 2010, 02:58 PM

[Buzzcut]

QUOTE(greedy_boy_3 @ Nov 18 2010, 01:52 PM)

 you are making £25 a pop by simply flashing his work to other people's drives.  Lol.

And he's in my prayers every night before I go to bed.

This post has been edited by Buzzcut: Nov 18 2010, 03:54 PM

[tarektaha]

I have a banned console updated to kinect dashboard can't i just keep  Changing new games to lower wave and keep playing off line? or AP2.5 will not allow this?

[MrX4000]

QUOTE(tarektaha @ Nov 18 2010, 10:09 AM)

I have a banned console updated to kinect dashboard can't i just keep  Changing new games to lower wave and keep playing off line? or AP2.5 will not allow this?

Simple answer ......... No .... and Yes to your second part (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by MrX4000: Nov 18 2010, 04:16 PM

[sauerkraut]

QUOTE(steveo1978 @ Nov 16 2010, 06:52 PM)

Ok backups on Live is against Xbox Live ToS and are also against forum rules so I am gonna start handing out suspension for every one mentioning they are playing backups on live.

Oh really...
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/hsdemonz/rules/Rules.htm or http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=573379

QUOTE

-People can discuss and state their firmware, drives, and method of construction for their backups, and whether or not they have taken the box or the backups in question on LIVE.

This is a big change to our XS Piracy related rules, as it will allow the membership free speech to mention they are using pirated backups.

I believe you are mistaken and therefore it would be wise to not threaten suspension over something the rules clearly state is acceptable.

I'm sure I'll get suspended/banned over this, but it needed to be said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pop.gif)

This post has been edited by sauerkraut: Nov 18 2010, 04:55 PM

[lrod2344]

QUOTE(astr4twin @ Nov 17 2010, 08:14 PM)

Thank's for taking time out to clear that up for me but im still a little confised. I understand your saying it may or may not happen that they may have AP2.5 laying dormant within them and that a TU could wake them up but is it fact they will then fail to boot when using LT+ and not using SSV3 or just your views. Ill explain a little better.....

My original thoughts before you explained it were that the new LT+ will report that the game was original and pass the AP2.5 checks and it did not matter if it was SSV1,V2 or V3 so therefore i would be ok burning NFS on SSV1 or SSV2. Basically i thought the LT+ FW on the drive was doing all the work to pass checks and there was nothing really needed to pass on the backup disk side of things. I only thought SSV was to do with being safe on live if M$ ever checked.

So just to clarify things.....
To pass AP2.5 and a game to boot in future you will need to be using LT+ and a backup disc will have to contain SSV3?
LT+ and an AP2.5 game burned with SSV2 will not boot?
I have a large number of games and i think if i had to burn them all off again, not only would it be too time consuming, it would be really expensive. Even after this a year down the line M$ could do something else and then games would require SSV4 or similar so id have to start burning them all again.

I think if you factored all the time & money into it, it would work out cheaper to buy a new 360 and not to accept the update that awoke AP2.5 in older games. I could then play all my old games on one 360 and burn future games with SSV3 for the new 360.
As you say, we do not know if this will ever happen but i will not bother to burn my backups of AC:BH and NFS off yet untill i can patch the SSV3 files into them.

Right... Pre-NXE dash has no AP25.... Newer AP25 Titiles will require a dash update to even play... Dash update has AP25 checks built-in..... AP25 will not allow a given title to even BOOT which fails AP25 checks..... a TITILE CANNOT pass any AP25 checks WITHOUT SSV3..... SSV3 isnt available yet..... pre-LT+ Firmware cannot respond to AP25 checks nor query SSV3 on a disc. The only Drives which cannot respond to AP25 are Samsungs and Early Hitachis and ONLY if they are the ORIGINAL drive which was married to the console (OSIG)

So to use any AP25 games SAFELY or for some even AT ALL you need:

Fall 2010 Dash (Kinect Dash)
LT+ Firmware (no exception) for Hitachi 78 and newer, BenQ and Lite-on Drives (Sammys and Pre-78 Hitachis are exempt from AP25) online OR Offline/ Banned or NOT
SSV3 on disc (need to re-burn) Unless already banned and using Samsung or Pre-78 Hitachi Drive then no need to re-burn.

This is just the way it is.... MOST if not all of us (except for the lucky few who still have a Sammy or Hitachi drive) Will have to start to re-burn our titles.

Hopefully ABGX v 1.1.0 will be released in time with LT+ to help us determine which titles need to actually be re-burned but for now as you said I wouldnt even bother to burn it the first time.

This quote is from ABGX Site:

2010/11/06:

abgx360 v1.0.3 released!

Changes affecting all platforms:

- Added full support for all current PFI/Video waves and the ability for future waves to be fully supported through updates to abgx360.dat
- The SplitVid check is now mandatory when checking an ISO/DVD and the "Check Stealth" option is enabled (iXtreme LT requires SplitVid for XBL safety)

Note: The GUI has not been changed and will still display version 1.0.2, don't worry about it as long as the CLI app displays v1.0.3

Sorry for the long release interval but v1.1.0 is taking much longer than expected and hopefully this interim update will address the main concern people were having, even though v1.0.2 was designed to support new PFI/Video waves as long as the game was verified, v1.0.3 gets rid of the yellow text and also allows you to check SplitVid on newer games that haven't been verified yet. It does not, however, add automatic searching/patching of SS v2 files. That's something that isn't even finished in v1.1.0 yet, and there's still the matter of SS v3 to deal with.

Note 2: XBL safety is very uncertain at the moment... The latest LT firmware for Samsung drives is considered by many to be fairly safe (since the TS-H943A ms25/ms28 original firmware doesn't support AP 2.5) but owners of other drives need to be very careful and upgrade to LT+ when it becomes available.



This post has been edited by lrod2344: Nov 18 2010, 05:18 PM

[steveo1978]

QUOTE(sauerkraut @ Nov 18 2010, 10:23 AM)

I believe you are mistaken and therefore it would be wise to not threaten suspension over something the rules clearly state is acceptable.

Maybe You should read a little farther

QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 22 2007, 05:29 PM)

-People CANNOT promote piracy, promote backups on LIVE. Prolonged comments, whether ethical, financial, or political about using backups on LIVE (a clear violation of LIVE TOS) will get you a ban. So choose every word on these issues carefully. There is no Reprieve. There is also no reversal of XS bans for people banned on this forum previous to this posting.

The warning still stands.