Topic: C4E Confirms New AP2.5 Checks on New Dashboard with New Games (Read 2802 times)

Zod5000 · « **Reply #120 on:** October 30, 2010, 10:37:00 PM »

QUOTE(krawhitham @ Oct 30 2010, 12:46 PM)

And how many times has c4eva said his firmware is safe to later get hit by a ban wave?

well safe under current detection techniques. It's been a cat and mouse game since the first hacked firmware. Someone makes a firmware, MS finds a new way to detect copies discs in the drive. I think when c4evs indicates its safe, its from known detection methods. I think you'd have to be pretty Naive to assume the firmwares are futureproof, especially with the history of modifying drives for the 360?

QUOTE(Celerion @ Oct 30 2010, 01:14 PM)

People with the Samsung drive (Not spoofed) are reporting that they can't play Fable 3 with the new dash. If that was true this would not happen. So either everyone that has reported Fable 3 not working on his Samsung is lying or c4eva is missing something here.

Or they're using a non LT version of sammy firmware that doesn't support current waves?

QUOTE(clerick @ Oct 30 2010, 02:09 PM)

Sounds like it but i'm pretty sure forced updates are to come on all new game disks.

I think you can get around that. Don't people patch the waves on their backups to previous waves that old firmware supports? The "WAVE" is the section of the disc that carries the firmware upgrade software. So I'm guessing patching them to older waves would do the trick? Unless MS includes a dashboard version detector into the games itself (ala ps3). Currently I think the xbox just detects the firmware update on the disc and tells you to upgrade, I don't think its the video game detecting it?

Zod5000 · « **Reply #121 on:** October 30, 2010, 10:48:00 PM »

QUOTE(TouchyFlea @ Oct 30 2010, 06:27 PM)

Yeah i get

Last Played
01/01/1753

on Fable 3 aswell, could just be the console dates since i don't go online and i've not set the time/date on it. My borderlands has the correct date though when i play on my slim which is:

Last Played
23/10/2010

Can't comment on the wavepatcher as i don't use it

+1, I noticed most of my older backups have this date.. going back to ones 3 or 4 years old. The newer ones showing up being red dead redemption. Problem is I blow the fuse from time to time that the tv/xbox is connected to and the clock resets. I've noticed this becasue game saves in dragon origins would get all messed up because of the issues of chronilogical order form having your clock reset. I'm guessing the 1753 think is a more a clock issue then copy protection issue?

Maximize · « **Reply #122 on:** October 30, 2010, 10:48:00 PM »

Im super awesome, let everyone know

Zod5000 · « **Reply #123 on:** October 30, 2010, 10:58:00 PM »

QUOTE(djkneegrow @ Oct 30 2010, 09:05 PM)

All I want to know is having nonstealth on the flashed system and what effect the new dashboard could, or does, have with the games for it.

I wouldn't go on the new dashboard with a flash drive. Non-stealth firmwares have no programming for ap2.5. They wouldn't know what to do when the game sends the checks to the firemware, it be insta-flag wouldn't it? To beat the new copy protection, the firmware's going to need to know what response the new dashboard wants. Stealth firmware isn't psychic.. I'm not sure why people seem to think it might be immune?

QUOTE(loggio @ Oct 30 2010, 10:06 PM)

Makes me wonder...

If the challenges are 'infinite' wouldn't it be easier for MS just to dish out to everyone using the kinnect dash their own seperate unique ap25 checks... that way Modified FW would be useless, because everyone would need their own unique Ixtreme fw to tackle their unique responses.

(I HOPE TO GOD I'M COMPLETELY WRONG FOR EVERYONES SAKE)

That probably require alot of programming dollars. So they put in 5 checks (presummadly with the ability to add more in the future). Wait for c4eva to adapt the firmware for the new checks, then activate a few more after the firmware comes out, gather the info.. and bam another banwave next year, and the year after.

Christmas time banwaves are almost a tradition

avpdav · « **Reply #124 on:** October 30, 2010, 11:10:00 PM »

QUOTE(kingdt @ Oct 30 2010, 07:48 PM)

He would. I'm assuming you will need the new dashboard for kinect to work? If that is the case, then they will have to release it next week and Major Nelson is making himself look like an arse. If you don't need the updated dash for kinect, i may well put my order in.

When I was demoing the Kinect at Fleet Week in San Francisco a few weeks ago, I asked if Kinect games needed the new dashboard. She said it doesn't NEED the new dashboard. She could have been wrong but I was glad to hear that.

I'm sure if you didn't have the new dash, you wouldn't be able to use the features like moving through the dash using the Kinect, or using your voice to turn on the 360, but I don't really care about any of that. As long as the games play (I have no problems with any burned games on the current dash), I'm fine.

Kithkarnon · « **Reply #125 on:** October 30, 2010, 11:11:00 PM »

Might be a silly question, but would rather ask a silly question, than not ask and end up looking stupid later. But I have a flashed 360 with a liteon (latest drive, non-slim, latest LT firmware, 9919 or whatever dash) and just picked up my retail Fable 3 Collectors Edition. Do I even need to worry about failing the AP2.5 check? Or will it only happen with a backup? I am assuming no, that I don't need to worry and just simply wait to update to the new dash until the new LT is ready, but like I said would sooner ask a silly question now...lol).

Aldanga · « **Reply #126 on:** October 30, 2010, 11:12:00 PM »

AP2.5 checks should not fail on a retail disc.

leperthebruce · « **Reply #127 on:** October 30, 2010, 11:13:00 PM »

I just wanted some clarification:

I have a BenQ drive flashed with LT.
I have not installed the kinect update to be released on Monday.
I have loaded my backup of Fable 3. I received no errors in doing so.

Was this a bad thing? From what people are saying, I can't tell if you get flagged period, or only if you also updated to the newest dash.

What are the conditions where one would get flagged?

loggio · « **Reply #128 on:** October 30, 2010, 11:19:00 PM »

QUOTE(leperthebruce @ Oct 31 2010, 06:13 AM)

I just wanted some clarification:

I have a BenQ drive flashed with LT.
I have not installed the kinect update to be released on Monday.
I have loaded my backup of Fable 3. I received no errors in doing so.

Was this a bad thing? From what people are saying, I can't tell if you get flagged period, or only if you also updated to the newest dash.

What are the conditions where one would get flagged?

The checks are built in to the new dash. You're on an old dash, you don't have to worry.

leperthebruce · « **Reply #129 on:** October 30, 2010, 11:26:00 PM »

Good I can stop sweating. Would have meant purchasing a 4th Xbox.

shtewps · « **Reply #130 on:** October 31, 2010, 12:03:00 AM »

Ah, I am quaintly reminded of some good old knowledge that I knew would become ever so relevant.

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EkupFVFuluBaVkSRMq.php

QUOTE("C4E")

<+c4eva> AP25 threat is real, but only MS knows if it will ever be enabled, since it has been in drive fw since hitachi!
<+c4eva> action against ap25 will be taken when it is used, until then we can only monitor!
<+c4eva> ap25 involves host supplied LBA checks, encrypted with AES, LBA's are submitted by the host (360)!
<+c4eva> not all drives support it, and they will have to make sure all drives that do support give back reliable results! not as easy as it sounds!
<rift> c4eva so just to make sure i got this correct, you said the 360 makes the AES'd lba request correct? not the drive?
<+c4eva> rift: transmitted to drive to do the checks!

http://xorloser.com/?p=9
http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EkupFkpkAAaUBamRKh.php

QUOTE("xorloser.com")

I noticed the other day that when FIFA09 for Xbox360 is patched with the latest update, the flags that specify what media the game is allowed to run from have changed. Originally it was allowed to boot from a standard original Xbox360 disc, however now it is only allowed to boot from a new media type which is basically an updated version of the original Xbox360 disc type.

Those who have ever looked into the depths of the Xbox360 disc authentication scheme know that a new type of disc authentication has been in the works since the Xbox360 was released. It is known as the AntiPiracy v2.5 checks, or AP2.5. Is this FIFA09 patch a sign that AP2.5 is finally going to see the light of day? If so then the ban hammer is going to come down hard. Dont say I didnt warn you

The original Xbox360 game disc was reffered to as DVD-XGD2, which I presume stands for Xbox Game Disc version 2 (with version 1 being the discs used on Xbox1). This new Xbox360 game disc just seems to be reffered to as an updated DVD-XGD2″ , however to avoid confusion I will call this new disc type DVD-XGD2.5″. Also since I am a lazy typer I will remove the DVD- prefix for the following text.

Based on what I remember from when I looked into the disc authentication, I can see three possibilities. In order of likeliness they are:

1) Possibly the XGD2.5 disc is actually physically the same as the XGD2 disc but has support for extra unknown challenge/response checks.

XGD2 discs are authenticated by a series of challenge response pairs. The Xbox360 sends challenges to the dvd-drive and then the drive sends back responses to these challenges based on information on the disc in the dvd drive. If the Xbox360 deems the responses to be correct, the disc is authenticated.

Current Xbox360 dvd-drive hacks work since the challenge/response pairs are stored in the security sector on the disc, meaning that all possible challenge/responses are known in advance. The best way for MS to solve this problem is to use challenge/response pairs that are not known in advance to the dvd-drive. So if a hacked dvd-drive receives an unknown challenge it will not have the correct repsonse to send back, therefore the authentication will fail and the copied game will not boot.

MS could do these extra checks when you connect to Xbox Live, and could even save unknown challenge/response pairs to a file on the flash of your Xbox360 in order to do the checks offline. They could also save challenge/responses to your flash when you update your console via Live or an update on a game disc.

2) Maybe the authentication of XGD2.5 is a superset of the XGD2 authentication. Therefore the FIFA09 game could be pressed on the new XGD2.5 discs and still pass the XGD2 authentication checks. Then when MS is ready to initiate AP2.5 checks they could patch the game to only boot if its disc passes the XGD2.5 authentication.

3) Or else I may just be wrong and there is no new disc type or it is totally seperate to AP2.5

LukaTCE · « **Reply #131 on:** October 31, 2010, 12:40:00 AM »

This mean we will have to patch every game from SSv2 to SSv3 ?

ragnar56 · « **Reply #132 on:** October 31, 2010, 01:41:00 AM »

does it work if i just patch game in wave 3 ? (i play just offline)
thanks

MethosSS24 · « **Reply #133 on:** October 31, 2010, 01:53:00 AM »

I have samsung spoofed as lite-on so if i try to update to the new dash i will get flagged cuz the check will fail.But if i reflash the samsung with the original firmware using the liteon key i will flagged again cuz the dvdbrand wont match with the consoles orginial dvd-rom.

JaseSX · « **Reply #134 on:** October 31, 2010, 02:22:00 AM »

If you have any concept of marketing or bussiness, just like every company microsoft do everything in their power to make as much money as possible. If you think otherwise im sorry your wrong, and console bans is just one of them. Lol if you think its a "conspiracy".

Author Topic: C4E Confirms New AP2.5 Checks on New Dashboard with New Games (Read 2802 times)