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[clouduz]

yeah it waves come out too often i might just buy that mod so i won't have to open it everytime i need to flash mine

[endorium]

Let me see if I have this right.

As long as abgx confirms the data and stealth(which it nows does for GTA) there is no real need to update to 1.61 FW as I can use the boot disc? Is there any advantage to updating over using a boot disc?

[Speekmeister]

QUOTE(endorium @ Oct 30 2009, 09:10 AM)

Is there any advantage to updating over using a boot disc?

Quite obvious.. With the 1.61 firmware you can just play your games without having to swap the disc every time you want to play a Wave 4 game.
However, when new Wave 5 games are present you will have to update the firmware again. With that activation disc there would be no need to.

Still.. I would personally prefer the firmware update.

This post has been edited by Speekmeister: Oct 30 2009, 09:17 AM

[amak1131]

I'm sure that while most of us appreciate the updates for each new Wave, I agree that it would be easier to just have it bypass that check altogether. If someone is dumb enough to play a backup without stealth checking it, let him be banned.

[ZakMcRofl]

At the current pace (Wave3 came 4 months after NXE, Wave4 came 2 months after August Dash Update) it is not unrealistic to expect Wave5 in the next 4 months (January if we calculate November Dash + 2 Months).

This alone should be motivation to consider a firmware that behaves like this:
if (date < wave4_start_date) verifyWaveMatchesDate())
else acceptWave4AndUnknownWaves()

So it would still be able to check for "moron disks" (patched to older wave) but it would accept newer waves.
Call it Xtreme 1.61 to indicate that its not "moron safe" and should only be used in combination with abgx360 checks. abgx360 would warn about the new wave anyways and its much easier to update software then firmware.

Here's my reasoning:
Let's assume there are 3 groups of users:
Class A is fully aware of the risks and checks every disk in abgx360 (A+ only plays if it verifies against online DB or is self ripped).
Class B are people who download/make backups and put them into their 360 without checking them.
Class C are morons that just buy a flashed Xbox and know nothing about anything. They only care that 'games work'. They get their disks from friends that belong to Class B or A.

Obviously Class A does not need protection/babysitting by firmware. They are the first to know about new waves and would post on X-S if a new wave shows up.

Class B would read about this new wave thing on their download source or just put the disk into the 360. This would not affect their stealth as long as nothing major changed. In the later case they obviously do not care about stealth and they are the ones patching to lower waves.
So Ixtreme does not fully protect them, if anything it encourages them to produce "frankendisks" with patched wave.

Class C does not know about what's going on. If they are supplied from Class A, they are fine. If they are supplied from Class B, they might get a frankendisk and be banned for it. Ixtreme does not protect them.

Conclusion: Rejecting a perfectly valid PFI just because it was unknown at the time of firmware creating leads to more risks for Class B and C. It does not result in more safety. Sure, if you assume everyone updates their drive firmware regulary, Ixtreme would protect them most of the time. But we all know Class B and Class C are unlikely to update their firmware. They just want their backups to work.

In the end, all this is purely academic. Unless someone knows how to patch IXtreme, we should be happy with C4EVA makes for us. His work is greatly appreciated.
However this gratitude should not stop us from discussing alternative approaches for future firmware.

[Toddler]

I hate that you spent all that time typing your message.  Not because I disagree, but because it's all been said already.  I've been saying it for days, and not just here, but to well-connected people.

Bottom line is we're gonna get what we're gonna get.  I think the only way C4E is going to change his mind is if he tires of updating firmware every few months.

[Speekmeister]

No doubt it would make things easier, but keep in mind that C4E isn't doing all this for you or me. He doesn't do this for any profit either. I think that as long as he keeps having fun in what he does, and I think that out-smarting M$ plays quite a role in it, we better be greatly thankful to him.

The way I see it nobody is in a position of wishing or demanding certain features from what he releases. Just be happy that he does. For those who just can't wait for a new firmware release or who don't want to use the "activate.iso" disc, you shoudn't complain and just go and buy the retail version.

Just to be clear, this is no attack at anyone. I just think that if people would stop complaining about such things it would make it all more worthwhile for C4E to continue. As for me, I greatly appreciate all the work he puts into this and exceptionally the fact that he is willing to share this with us all, even though some people just don't seem to realize that we all owe him big time and certainly not the other way around.

EDIT: in all my typing I didn't see the other reactions.

*totally agrees with Toddler, even though I typed that same long message..

This post has been edited by Speekmeister: Oct 30 2009, 10:00 AM

[pigbait]

QUOTE(Speekmeister @ Oct 30 2009, 10:55 AM)

No doubt it would make things easier, but keep in mind that C4E isn't doing all this for you or me. He doesn't do this for any profit either. I think that as long as he keeps having fun in what he does, and I think that out-smarting M$ plays quite a role in it, we better be greatly thankful to him.

The way I see it nobody is in a position of wishing or demanding certain features from what he releases. Just be happy that he does. For those who just can't wait for a new firmware release or who don't want to use the "activate.iso" disc, they shoudn't complain and just go and buy the retail version.

Just to be clear, this is no attack at anyone. I just think that if people would stop complaining about such things it would make it all more worthwhile for C4EVA to continue. As for me, I greatly appreciate all the work he puts into this and exceptionally the fact that he is willing to share this with us all, even though some people just don't seem to realize that we all owe him big time and certainly not the other way around.

This is no attack to you but no one here is bitching or complaning about anything... I love what c4eva does for us end users. But I think people speaking and giving inputs is a positive thing open doors to new ways of doing stuff. It may help the team out in future firmware's not everyone who is not part of team hyper X is a retard there are so smart people out there ( and yes a great thanks to C4eva)

[hardie]

QUOTE(Speekmeister @ Oct 30 2009, 06:25 PM)

No doubt it would make things easier, but keep in mind that C4E isn't doing all this for you or me. He doesn't do this for any profit either. I think that as long as he keeps having fun in what he does, and I think that out-smarting M$ plays quite a role in it, we better be greatly thankful to him.

The way I see it nobody is in a position of wishing or demanding certain features from what he releases. Just be happy that he does. For those who just can't wait for a new firmware release or who don't want to use the "activate.iso" disc, you shoudn't complain and just go and buy the retail version.

Just to be clear, this is no attack at anyone. I just think that if people would stop complaining about such things it would make it all more worthwhile for C4E to continue. As for me, I greatly appreciate all the work he puts into this and exceptionally the fact that he is willing to share this with us all, even though some people just don't seem to realize that we all owe him big time and certainly not the other way around.

EDIT: in all my typing I didn't see the other reactions.

*totally agrees with Toddler, even though I typed that same long message..

Been following this topic in the background
Totally 100% agree and well said  
All that c4eva has done is greatly appreciated by myself and look forward patiently for any future updates

[ZakMcRofl]

Look, nobody is attacking c4e or demanding anything.
We are making suggestions and discussing possible improvements to the current situation.
I'm sure C4E is a very talented and intelligent person which is why I hope he's open to discussion. Sure, in the end it is his call, but even free projects live on user feedback.

Look at the open source community: sure, everything is free but that doesn't keep people from posting bug reports or feature requests. It is even encouraged because it helps the developer produce better software that more people are content with. Discussing optimization potential is never a bad thing as long as it is done in a constructive, respectful way.

[[email protected]]

I don't know why everyone is moaning. Burn an activation ISO, it takes like 10 seconds more to boot the disk up..!

Wave compliance is built into the software for a reason. Would you rather a firmware version that boots any wave, BUT, 6 months down the line Microsoft change the system or find a way of breaking the ixtreme checks and everyone ends up getting their xbox's banned? I imagine it would be quite easy to just wait a few months letting everyone think their machines are safe and then ban them all.If someone is constantly checking the updates and changing the firmware to fit it perfectly I imagine there will never be the worry of this.

[pigbait]

QUOTE(ZakMcRofl @ Oct 30 2009, 11:10 AM)

Look, nobody is attacking c4e or demanding anything.
We are making suggestions and discussing possible improvements to the current situation.
I'm sure C4E is a very talented and intelligent person which is why I hope he's open to discussion. Sure, in the end it is his call, but even free projects live on user feedback.

Look at the open source community: sure, everything is free but that doesn't keep people from posting bug reports or feature requests. It is even encouraged because it helps the developer produce better software that more people are content with. Discussing optimization potential is never a bad thing as long as it is done in a constructive, respectful way.

BINGO!!!!!!!  Well said my friend

[FixItOrModIt]

do original wave 4 copies play on older firmware without the activate disc?

[Speekmeister]

I'm regretting a bit that I typed all that because I didn't mean to start this kind of discussion (of course in the back of my head knowing that it would    ).
However I do, partly, agree with you Pigbait that it is of help to supply the team with new ideas. But you can't deny that there are (in my opinion too many) people out there who think they have the right to demand such things.

I had better not typed that last reply, I'm aware of that as it's just filling up the thread with something that was already said about a hundred times.  Of course I know that there are many good guys out there and there aren't much of the "bad ones" at this forum, somehow I was just annoyed and felt the need to share it with you all (though everybody in here feels the exact same).

I completely agree with you and Toddler.  

EDIT: *also fully agrees with ZakMcRofl, it's just that sometimes they forget to do it in that "constructive and respectful way". It is at those that I was aiming at.

[pigbait]

QUOTE([email protected] @ Oct 30 2009, 11:11 AM)

I don't know why everyone is moaning. Burn an activation ISO, it takes like 10 seconds more to boot the disk up..!

Wave compliance is built into the software for a reason. Would you rather a firmware version that boots any wave, BUT, 6 months down the line Microsoft change the system or find a way of breaking the ixtreme checks and everyone ends up getting their xbox's banned? I imagine it would be quite easy to just wait a few months letting everyone think their machines are safe and then ban them all.If someone is constantly checking the updates and changing the firmware to fit it perfectly I imagine there will never be the worry of this.

see your the guy that doesn't understand that when you modd you console you got to live with the fact that you may get banned or you may not... And if you do that's life and life go's on. The amount of cash I've saved is off the hook so if I loose my GT or my xbox I'll buy a new one and just rebuy all my DLC I still saved money...

QUOTE(Speekmeister @ Oct 30 2009, 11:17 AM)

I'm regretting a bit that I typed all that because I didn't mean to start this kind of discussion (of course in the back of my head knowing that it would    ).
However I do, partly, agree with you Pigbait that it is of help to supply the team with new ideas. But you can't deny that there are (in my opinion too many) people out there who think they have the right to demand such things.

I had better not typed that last reply, I'm aware of that as it's just filling up the thread with something that was already said about a hundred times.  Of course I know that there are many good guys out there and there aren't much of the "bad ones" at this forum, somehow I was just annoyed and felt the need to share it with you all (though everybody in here feels the exact same).

I completely agree with you and Toddler.  

EDIT: *also fully agrees with fark_liam, it's just that sometimes they forget to do it in that "constructive and respectful way". It is at those that I was aiming at.

Yes and I agree with you aswell there are many assholes out there that don't help at all with there ideas.

But back on topic.... LOL