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[newboxflash]

as always many thanks for the updates via the site

alwasy good to know what the score is on these things, keep up the good work cheers poster

[uradodah]

QUOTE(gato2002 @ Oct 17 2009, 01:50 PM)

Well, what i had in mind, was patching with PPF Patch.
I still have Live, but i'm pushing my luck with playing patched games on other not-Live profile.

 Yes - you're pushing your luck - especially since using a non-Live profile does absolutely nothing to keep your data from being sent to M$.  All it takes is an internet connection to your console at some point in the future.  For example, say you play a patched game (not properly stealth patched) with profile "A" - a non-Live profile.  Profile "B" is the one you use for Live gaming.

There are 2 ways for your data to be sent to M$:

1. If your console still maintains an active internet connection then data will be sent - regardless of the profile being used.
2. Even if you disconnect your console from the net, it will continue to retain the recorded data in it's on-board memory and will send it to M$ once you're connected to the net again - with profile "A" or "B".  It doesn't matter.

Profiles *don't* matter when it comes to the risks of being banned.  Don't play improperly stealth patched - including PPF patched - games.  You might as well walk through the Xbox division of M$ with a "Ban Me Please" sign on your back!

QUOTE(KakarotX @ Oct 17 2009, 04:27 PM)

sorry if this has already been covered, but i couldn't find a definite answer. i have 1.6 fw installed and was wondering if i can play wave 4 offline without the one shot disc or do i still need to use it .thanks

Offline or online, it doesn't matter.  The f/w wouldn't even boot the game without using the one-shot boot disc.  This issue is exactly why the "Activate.iso" disc/file was created.  Thank you, Jungle Team!

QUOTE(fatvince @ Oct 18 2009, 02:16 AM)

I've heard this quite a bit as well, Lite-On with 1.51 playing wave4 games perfectly without being patched.. Can anyone confirm?

Wave 4 games - plural?!  There's only one that's been released so far - according to several web sites/forums I've read..."Cars Race-o-Rama", I believe.  The story on the 1st page of this post (including the updated info) confirms that Lite-On drives WON'T play Wave 4 games without the one-shot boot disc.  I'm not sure what you mean by "without being patched".  There is no patch for Wave 4 games - only the one-shot boot disc.  Anything else will just put a bulls-eye on you as a future ban candidate.

This post has been edited by uradodah: Oct 18 2009, 09:11 PM

[ps2moduk]

QUOTE

Wave 4 games - plural?! There's only one that's been released so far - according to several web sites/forums I've read..."Cars Race-o-Rama", I believe. The story on the 1st page of this post (including the updated info) confirms that Lite-On drives WON'T play Wave 4 games without the one-shot boot disc. I'm not sure what you mean by "without being patched". There is no patch for Wave 4 games - only the one-shot boot disc. Anything else will just put a bulls-eye on you as a future ban candidate.

Lips is also wave 4

[uradodah]

QUOTE(ps2moduk @ Oct 18 2009, 03:39 PM)

Lips is also wave 4

Thanks for clarifying.  I hadn't seen that one mentioned yet.

[Toddler]

QUOTE(uradodah @ Oct 18 2009, 02:59 PM)

I'm not sure what you mean by "without being patched".  There is no patch for Wave 4 games - only the one-shot boot disc.

I think he means patching the video layer with an older version that passes the iXtreme stealth check, which is a bad idea for obvious reasons.

[gato2002]

QUOTE(uradodah @ Oct 18 2009, 09:59 PM)

Yes - you're pushing your luck - especially since using a non-Live profile does absolutely nothing to keep your data from being sent to M$.  All it takes is an internet connection to your console at some point in the future.  For example, say you play a patched game (not properly stealth patched) with profile "A" - a non-Live profile.  Profile "B" is the one you use for Live gaming.

There are 2 ways for your data to be sent to M$:

1. If your console still maintains an active internet connection then data will be sent - regardless of the profile being used.
2. Even if you disconnect your console from the net, it will continue to retain the recorded data in it's on-board memory and will send it to M$ once you're connected to the net again - with profile "A" or "B".  It doesn't matter.

Profiles *don't* matter when it comes to the risks of being banned.  Don't play improperly stealth patched - including PPF patched - games.  You might as well walk through the Xbox division of M$ with a "Ban Me Please" sign on your back!

I've heard about those methods of sending data to M$, but i'm a occasional Live player, and i'm pushing my luck because i didn't bought X360 for multiplayer in the first place, but mainly single player mode games, since i have console for about 8 months now, i had a lot of games to catch up with and didn't care much about multiplayer. What's funny, right now i'm in the middle of my 3rd trial gold account, playing GoW 2, since i've completed all the most important games on my playlist. :]

[mariotwo]

Sooo... how many times are we going to have to upgrade our stinkin' firmware?

It seems like it would be better just to go back to the universal wave boot method rather than make us use a bootdisk every time.

I use ABGX regularly so it wouldn't bother me...

Really not looking forward to updating AGAIN.

[HiddenSniper]

A friend of mine got this game early because he is the manager at a GameStop. While playing it online, he was contacted by "a Microsoft Administrator," who requested that he prove that he purchased the game. He didn't ask for a receipt; rather, he ask him information that was contained in the game's manual. ie: what's the 3rd word on the 7th page in the manual and whatnot.

Hope this helps explain some things?

This post has been edited by HiddenSniper: Oct 20 2009, 12:41 AM

[Toddler]

QUOTE(HiddenSniper @ Oct 19 2009, 06:41 PM)

A friend of mine got this game early because he is the manager at a GameStop. While playing it online, he was contacted by "a Microsoft Administrator," who requested that he prove that he purchased the game. He didn't ask for a receipt; rather, he ask him information that was contained in the game's manual. ie: what's the 3rd word on the 7th page in the manual and whatnot.

Hope this helps explain some things?

That's interesting.  It makes me think about how people always get jittery when ban waves happen, and everybody starts questioning the integrity of the stealth database and asking "which game was it" or what have you.  I just don't think it's that simple.

I'd bet good money that the banning process is largely the product of old-fashioned detective work; i.e., analyzing the observable data, investigating the inferred possibilities, and making a reasonable deduction based on the evidence.  That's why I think autofixing your rips with ABGX is a bad idea.  Not all copies of a title look identical--different "pressings" have different stealth data or "fingerprints," so there are often multiple valid stealth versions for a given title.  There are ways to verify your own rips, and if you autofix them, now the game you bought at your Chicago Wal-Mart looks like it's from Germany, or your Halo3 has the same stealth data as everyone else who autofixed theirs.

Yes, I know "they can't ban you for playing a region-free game."  But they can ban you if they think you are a pirate, and maybe playing region-free games all the time makes you look like a pirate.  Seriously, how many people live in Chicago but import region-free games from all over the world?  Think about it--it's all about patterns.

Who gets banned?  People who don't do their own rips, who download, don't verify games, don't know the origin, etc.  In short, pirates get banned.  I don't know anyone who does their own rips properly who has been banned.  Now if someone earns a ban, Microsoft has the stealth fingerprints of games they've played.  Analyze the fingerprints of those games, compare them to the fingerprints of other users--see where I'm going?  A pirate looks like a pirate.

In fact, Microsoft should be using the ABGX360 databse as a way to detect piracy.  If your stealth fingerprints all happen to match the fingerprints in ABGX360, I think it's reasonable to conclude you are a pirate, ban you and take it as confirmation when you sign on a few weeks later with a new 360.

For that reason, I don't want my stealth fingerprints to come from the ABGX360 database.  I want them to come from the originals I bought as Best Buy.  And because I don't autofix them, they do.

[samuels]

QUOTE(HiddenSniper @ Oct 20 2009, 10:41 AM)

A friend of mine got this game early because he is the manager at a GameStop. While playing it online, he was contacted by "a Microsoft Administrator," who requested that he prove that he purchased the game. He didn't ask for a receipt; rather, he ask him information that was contained in the game's manual. ie: what's the 3rd word on the 7th page in the manual and whatnot.

Hope this helps explain some things?

To me explains nothing,Microsoft  keep their eye out for their own studio games more than any other...yeah sure they would watch closely on non released titles but to go to the extreme that you mentioned is not really a thought....they wouldn't even have the manuals for that game themselves and also that "administrator would be in violation of the privacy act if he had performed some action like that,they would have to take a legal way of finding out where you got the game,it's a bit different when it comes to their Terms Of Service they have certain wording in that which enables them to perform such actions but the action you have described is not in their TOS ....

[samuels]

QUOTE(Toddler @ Oct 20 2009, 12:02 PM)

That's interesting.  It makes me think about how people always get jittery when ban waves happen, and everybody starts questioning the integrity of the stealth database and asking "which game was it" or what have you.  I just don't think it's that simple.

I'd bet good money that the banning process is largely the product of old-fashioned detective work; i.e., analyzing the observable data, investigating the inferred possibilities, and making a reasonable deduction based on the evidence.  That's why I think autofixing your rips with ABGX is a bad idea.  Not all copies of a title look identical--different "pressings" have different stealth data or "fingerprints," so there are often multiple valid stealth versions for a given title.  There are ways to verify your own rips, and if you autofix them, now the game you bought at your Chicago Wal-Mart looks like it's from Germany, or your Halo3 has the same stealth data as everyone else who autofixed theirs.

Yes, I know "they can't ban you for playing a region-free game."  But they can ban you if they think you are a pirate, and maybe playing region-free games all the time makes you look like a pirate.  Seriously, how many people live in Chicago but import region-free games from all over the world?  Think about it--it's all about patterns.

Who gets banned?  People who don't do their own rips, who download, don't verify games, don't know the origin, etc.  In short, pirates get banned.  I don't know anyone who does their own rips properly who has been banned.  Now if someone earns a ban, Microsoft has the stealth fingerprints of games they've played.  Analyze the fingerprints of those games, compare them to the fingerprints of other users--see where I'm going?  A pirate looks like a pirate.

In fact, Microsoft should be using the ABGX360 databse as a way to detect piracy.  If your stealth fingerprints all happen to match the fingerprints in ABGX360, I think it's reasonable to conclude you are a pirate, ban you and take it as confirmation when you sign on a few weeks later with a new 360.

For that reason, I don't want my stealth fingerprints to come from the ABGX360 database.  I want them to come from the originals I bought as Best Buy.  And because I don't autofix them, they do.

No sorry i would have to dis-agree on this one,1)...I am a frequent  game importer for both systems 360 and the PS3 and secondly how do you explain the people that have not had their 360 touched,it's as stock as the day it came from the production line,why are they getting banned ? this has all been dealt with before and no-one really knows the true answer,we are all just assuming at the moment,some people have come extremely close and i thank them all for that as we wouldn't be where we all are today.
when you say when the game is pressed and at the same ....lets just say pressing plant,how can the second disc off the press be different from the first one ? production line hasn't got time to fiddle around with pressings for every same game coded disc,the only way i can see this happening is it's done digitally and pre-programmed into the press to which i don't believe anyone really has thought of that yet ?

[Toddler]

QUOTE(samuels @ Oct 19 2009, 08:32 PM)

No sorry i would have to dis-agree on this one,1)...I am a frequent  game importer for both systems 360 and the PS3 and secondly how do you explain the people that have not had their 360 touched,it's as stock as the day it came from the production line,why are they getting banned ? this has all been dealt with before and no-one really knows the true answer,we are all just assuming at the moment,some people have come extremely close and i thank them all for that as we wouldn't be where we all are today.

I was not speaking of the bannings for playing games prior to release.  As I stated at the outset, I was considering the "ban waves" that happen from time to time.

QUOTE(samuels @ Oct 19 2009, 08:32 PM)

when you say when the game is pressed and at the same ....lets just say pressing plant,how can the second disc off the press be different from the first one ? production line hasn't got time to fiddle around with pressings for every same game coded disc,the only way i can see this happening is it's done digitally and pre-programmed into the press to which i don't believe anyone really has thought of that yet ?

Discs from the same facility are identical.  However, a game such as Halo 3 with huge demand will be manufactured in several different facilities, and each facility is sent a master, and each of those masters is unique.  This is why your Halo 3 rip can be perfectly valid, and yet not match the Halo 3 stealth files in the ABGX360 database.

[samuels]

QUOTE(Toddler @ Oct 20 2009, 12:41 PM)

I was not speaking of the bannings for playing games prior to release.  As I stated at the outset, I was considering the "ban waves" that happen from time to time.
Discs from the same facility are identical.  However, a game such as Halo 3 with huge demand will be manufactured in several different facilities, and each facility is sent a master, and each of those masters is unique.  This is why your Halo 3 rip can be perfectly valid, and yet not match the Halo 3 stealth files in the ABGX360 database.

thats another thing...how do we know the game is pressed in different regions ? just because it says on the packaging where it is manafactured,this may only mean the paperwork(game manual and box art) and the amaray cover ? where does your halo 3 say it was manafactured on your game manual and amaray case,no doubt it will be different from mine...but hey whats the harm in comparing ?

[Toddler]

QUOTE(samuels @ Oct 19 2009, 08:21 PM)

To me explains nothing,Microsoft  keep their eye out for their own studio games more than any other...yeah sure they would watch closely on non released titles but to go to the extreme that you mentioned is not really a thought....they wouldn't even have the manuals for that game themselves and also that "administrator would be in violation of the privacy act if he had performed some action like that,they would have to take a legal way of finding out where you got the game,it's a bit different when it comes to their Terms Of Service they have certain wording in that which enables them to perform such actions but the action you have described is not in their TOS ....

Your assertion that "they wouldn't even have the manuals for that game themselves" is just plain silly.  Maybe that was a joke or something on your part.

Their TOS doesn't have to say "we have the right to ask you for word 3 on page 7 of the user manual."  They can pretty much verify anything they want, however they want to.  In fact, they don't usually "verify" anything to ban somebody.  A ban just "happens" typically without any recourse, and even offering to send the console in for analysis falls on deaf ears.

[samuels]

QUOTE(Toddler @ Oct 20 2009, 12:50 PM)

Your assertion that "they wouldn't even have the manuals for that game themselves" is just plain silly.  Maybe that was a joke or something on your part.

Their TOS doesn't have to say "we have the right to ask you for word 3 on page 7 of the user manual."  They can pretty much verify anything they want, however they want to.  In fact, they don't usually "verify" anything to ban somebody.  A ban just "happens" typically without any recourse, and even offering to send the console in for analysis falls on deaf ears.

I kid you not...they wouldn't even have the game manuals....heres one for you then,Modern Warfare 2 is out on the net,now i don't know if it's a reviewers copy but to my knowledge there isn't even one of them yet.So your trying to tell me that Microsoft have the game manual for that already ? I f a Microsoft Agent had phoned me to ask that question you posted,fair enough it may of been an example,I would of told him where to go,that here anyrate is a breach of privacy,sure he can guess i have it illegally but until he can get the relevant authorities to act then he hasn't got a leg to stand on