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[PeteBernert]

As I've said in some other thread: XPort released the questioned sources, so that's settled. I don't know if there are still issues with some other coders, but even if yes, I think that can be settled as well.

But more important (in my eyes) is that some of you should  question your ways of thinking.

I often have the impression here that you think that the main coders of the ported emus are jealous over XPort's (oe other porters) doing, and therefore they want to stop or hinder him in some way. That's (plain and simple) crap. I have millions of hits on my own private homepage, and I get over 100 mails each week from psx emu lovers, so why should I have a reason to be jealous when I see that a porter of my code is having success in his doing?

So you may ask: why all that bitching around for a GPL source release, why the critism over XPort's doing? It's quite easy: a porter is always part of a bigger team. By definition, even if he is not aware of it. His doings will affect all of the team members. And teams have rules. Like the GPL: "if you change this sources, make sure that everybody can see your changes, for the benefit of everyone". Another simple rule with all free PSX emus I do know is: "don't bundle the emu with SONY's BIOS".

A team member (porter) who is honoring this rules will get full support, no problems at all. Somebody who isn't following the rules is no team member, not even a porter, but simply a thief. And there is no love or respect for thieves in the emulation scenes I know.

And there's some other thing you have to keep in mind: if some wanna-be porter doesn't feel comfortable with a team's rules, he is always free to look for some other team's work, which is maybe better suited for his way of thinking.

Last but not least: main coders usually don't go and argue much. There is not much fun in doing so. Why should they fight each and every windmill? They will simply stop the wind itself. That's within their powers. If you like it or not.

[Enkak]

You are right in everything too Pete and, btw, let me say i love your plugins. The best graphics plugins ever in my opinion hehe. Like, ePSXe 1.52 without your plugins would not be quite the same thing

[skforty]

OMG! do i really need to point out the hypocracy of a contributing developer of a psx emu calling someone else a thief??  Realistically folks, not ideallistically...THINK ABOUT IT??  Either way, im done, thank you xport and everyone EVER who has EVER contributed EVER.  I will continue to enjoy and reap all rewards in silence, good day.

[blitz6]

I've been following the Emulation scene since before NeorageX was release in #neogeo on efnet.  This PCSX issue is really disturbing.  Ive seen this type of situation come up before, and its always a absolute moron like Cyrus whos out for blood since he wants attention.  

Key points:

Xport is a great person who has made THOUSANDS of people happy and enjoyed their lives more due to these incredible ports.  I cant tell you how much fun it is to play these classics with my 60 year old father at his house as we spend time with each other.  My little sister also loves the xbox and so many of the games on it.  

People like Cyrus can seriously die.  I hope people like you get run over and then burned, then eaten by stray dogs.  You are the putrid dump of the world, doing nothing but whining and demanding what you want.  I seriously hope you are dead soon, and i pray for your early demise.  

Thank you xport, and the MANY MANY Xbox emulation authors who've brought joy and happiness to so many xbox owners with good times playing the old classics like we did when we were young.  Your effor and work has CERTAINLY not gone unnoticed and we appreciate so much of it.

[Large Dopant white]

Everyone's aware that this isn't purely a legal issue with the GPL, right? It's about respecting the original author's wishes (not hard, they wrote it)? Xport has done this. Cool. He respects the authors. I'm getting tired of hearing that old, oft-repeated line, "The XDK and modchip w/ the illegal BIOS is illegal, so screw the authors that this port is based on" from what I can only assume are from people who don't understand why the whole open-source movement is still kicking. Again, I'm not critizising Xport, because he's actually respecting their wishes. I'm talking about some of the others in this thread.
Oh, and projects don't die from critizism; as it's been said before, coders usually port stuff because they, personally, want to, not because ranting pre-teens on the web want it. Regardless of what a coder says, it dies because interest is lost on the coder's behalf.

[SweeneyTodd]

Thanks again for everything, XPort. Write code, or don't, based on whether you get personal enjoyment out of it.

Oh, and "nisi illegitimi carborundum".

[gsta_uk]

Just a quick note to say:

"Thanks Xport for all your hard work, don't let these jealous peeps try to put you off. You've done the whole scene a favour and I think many would agree, we are in your debt"

Many thanks mate!!!!!

 

[PeteBernert]

>do i really need to point out the hypocracy of a contributing developer of a psx emu calling someone else a thief?


yes, you do need to point this out. Because I cannot see any 'hypocracy'. If you think that every emu coder is by definition a thief (maybe because he 'steals' the intellectual property of the console makers), than you are wrong, and you have no clue about things like legal reverse engineering, or brooding over senseless bytes without any official documentations.

Anyway, I haven't said that XPort is a thief. He reacted correctly when he realised that there were certain demands from the main developers. I was just trying to explain the reactions _before_ he made the sources public, and how an active main developer feels about his projects.

[Mage]

QUOTE (PeteBernert @ May 17 2003, 11:46 AM)

>do i really need to point out the hypocracy of a contributing developer of a psx emu calling someone else a thief? yes, you do need to point this out. Because I cannot see any 'hypocracy'. If you think that every emu coder is by definition a thief (maybe because he 'steals' the intellectual property of the console makers), than you are wrong, and you have no clue about things like legal reverse engineering, or brooding over senseless bytes without any official documentations. Anyway, I haven't said that XPort is a thief. He reacted correctly when he realised that there were certain demands from the main developers. I was just trying to explain the reactions _before_ he made the sources public, and how an active main developer feels about his projects.

I know lots about 'legal' reserve engineering, and guess what, often times the way a person got the information to give to the group who is doing it 'legally' weren't legal.  Tainted reserach made to look legal, but it still wasn't legal.

You think the ps2 scene found ALL the information about GS tags on their own?  No, someone used SCEI docs, much like what people DID do with the psx scene many moons ago.

YOUR code might not have, but you've got much of your  information from other people, and sure you can say since you got it from them, your hands are clean, but they aren't.

This is the way the emulation scene does indeed work, you can still act like it's all perfectly legal, makes no difference to me, we'll still give you guys the info you need though.  

Btw, are you going to host any code that uses the XDK on your site?  I highly doubt you'll want to take that risk.  That is the main reason why I say the GPL doesn't matter when his port is in such a risky legal area.  

Nice job on the emulator though.

[rjm2k]

QUOTE (Mage @ May 17 2003, 08:16 PM)

QUOTE (PeteBernert @ May 17 2003, 11:46 AM) >do i really need to point out the hypocracy of a contributing developer of a psx emu calling someone else a thief? yes, you do need to point this out. Because I cannot see any 'hypocracy'. If you think that every emu coder is by definition a thief (maybe because he 'steals' the intellectual property of the console makers), than you are wrong, and you have no clue about things like legal reverse engineering, or brooding over senseless bytes without any official documentations. Anyway, I haven't said that XPort is a thief. He reacted correctly when he realised that there were certain demands from the main developers. I was just trying to explain the reactions _before_ he made the sources public, and how an active main developer feels about his projects. I know lots about 'legal' reserve engineering, and guess what, often times the way a person got the information to give to the group who is doing it 'legally' weren't legal.  Tainted reserach made to look legal, but it still wasn't legal. You think the ps2 scene found ALL the information about GS tags on their own?  No, someone used SCEI docs, much like what people DID do with the psx scene many moons ago. YOUR code might not have, but you've got much of your  information from other people, and sure you can say since you got it from them, your hands are clean, but they aren't. This is the way the emulation scene does indeed work, you can still act like it's all perfectly legal, makes no difference to me, we'll still give you guys the info you need though.   Btw, are you going to host any code that uses the XDK on your site?  I highly doubt you'll want to take that risk.  That is the main reason why I say the GPL doesn't matter when his port is in such a risky legal area.   Nice job on the emulator though.

This is the way that the original IBM PC clones (Compaq) got around the problem of copying the bios, one set reverse engineered the bios and produced a description of the functionality without reference to how it was actually implemented.  A second "clean room" group then produced a replacement bios which had the same functionality but was implemented differently.

[MURDERER]

       

iMURDERER

[guile]

QUOTE (PeteBernert @ May 17 2003, 07:46 PM)

>do i really need to point out the hypocracy of a contributing developer of a psx emu calling someone else a thief? yes, you do need to point this out. Because I cannot see any 'hypocracy'. If you think that every emu coder is by definition a thief (maybe because he 'steals' the intellectual property of the console makers), than you are wrong, and you have no clue about things like legal reverse engineering, or brooding over senseless bytes without any official documentations. Anyway, I haven't said that XPort is a thief. He reacted correctly when he realised that there were certain demands from the main developers. I was just trying to explain the reactions _before_ he made the sources public, and how an active main developer feels about his projects.

Pete- Since you seem to be satisfied with the way Xport reacted to your request's, do you think you would ever allow
Xport the use of your plugin's if he asked?
g

[faceless]

"It's about respecting the original author's wishes"

i bet the designers over at sony wished people could only play playstation games on a sony playstation... so what about their wishes?

ok, just playing devil's advocate...

[djmrm]

I can't believe the disrespect some of you have given to Pete, and then got the balls to ask for his plugin source.

Pete, you've done soo much fantastic work in the PC scene, and have my full respect.
Your plugins are amazing, and I always look forward to each and every release.
Thats what makes ePSXe soo damn amazing, and far far superior to every other PSX emulator out there.

And as a request, don't EVER release your source to this "community", if this is what you can expect to recieve. And can we call it a community ? Or shall we call it a warez group, as thats the feeling you get when you go underground to IRC to get an emulator compiled with a totally illegal SDK.

As for Xport, he's a great man. He's obviously got some talent, and it's shown with his ports.
But I do agree about the BIOS, it should NEVER be included with ANY emulator PERIOD !!  And makes the legality even worse as it could attract Sony. After all, it's THEIR property.

QUOTE

Xport, You are an XBOX Scene Saviour, I am sorry that kiddies around here make you feel that you have to defend yourself for whatever reason. I appreciate all the work you are doing for the scene. I don't see too many people releasing programs at the same rate that you do. We are moving so fast because you release so many programs for the XBOX! Xport, you are one awesome dude. To everybody else who bitches at Xport for whatever reason. "Suck a nut Beyatch!"

It's posts like these that really p*ss me off.
The Xbox "Scene", wouldn't be a "Scene" if it weren't for the PC coders PERIOD !!
You can skew the words any way you wish, you can insult the PC coders any way you wish, but the FACTS are true. PERIOD !! NO ifs !! NO buts !!
As far as I've seen it, noone "Bitched" at him. They merely asked for the GPL to be honoured. Not a lot to ask from someone who's put hundreds of man hours into his work, for FREE !!

QUOTE

People like Cyrus can seriously die. I hope people like you get run over and then burned, then eaten by stray dogs. You are the putrid dump of the world, doing nothing but whining and demanding what you want. I seriously hope you are dead soon, and i pray for your early demise.

I can't believe I just read that.  Where are the moderators ?
That should be an instant ban.  Thats worse than ANY flame, or even a hundred "Where's my PS2 emulator" posts.

I hope you ignored that, Cyrus. That was way out of line.

I think you are making a fantastic contribution to the PC emulator scene. And your progress on Icarus is superb.
To the users flaming this guy,
At least I'll get to play a fantastic DC emulator, when Cyrus feels it's right to release it.
You'll never get to see his source, you'll NEVER see a working DC emulator.

Oh and Cyrus, if you ever need a new beta tester...  
Well, I do have 150 DC games still in use on this amazing little console.

And lastly, I expect I'll get some flames from the children that spoil this forum.  But thats what you expect from kids today.

[guile]

QUOTE (djmrm @ May 18 2003, 01:17 AM)

I can't believe the disrespect some of you have given to Pete, and then got the balls to ask for his plugin source.

What are you talking about? I guess I'm the guy with the ballz that asked. I didn't ask for it, I was just curious
to know if Xport asked. would he consider it. I don't know if you have read this entire thread (or the other few threads
that were based on the same thing) but I think all points were made and satisfied. I'm not gonna say I agree with the
way some people treated Cyruss but are we going to start this whole thing all over again?? This thread (as far as I'm concerned) should have been locked already. Now it will turn into another flame fest with no end in sight.
g