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[Foe-hammer]

QUOTE(lNimoy @ Nov 8 2005, 11:43 PM)

Halo 1 to Halo 2 was a huge difference in graphics.

[hamwbone]

you sya that you can change the video out put settings in the blades? i didnt see it anywhere, i read somehwere you have to eject the dvd on kiosks to change it?

[Ballz2TheWallz]

i like how this man goes and confirms his experience for the rest of the world, like we didnt know the kiosks were jaggy already. HINT check out the videos of RETAIL COD2


thanks goodbye

[Hajaz]

It's true that many 360 *launch* titles lack AA. i'll explain why.

the 360 offers virtually free 4xAA Anti aliasing thanks to the 10MB eDram buffer.
However, to get this free AA the gameengine needs to be coded with tiling implemented, otherwise the frame wont fit in the buffer. this needs to be implemented at the start of a games development process. You cant just add it to an existing engine.
Because all 360 launch games were basically developed on high end PCs, then switched to real X360 development kits when they became available, this wasnt implemented.

PGR3 does have AA but that is bacause it runs at a slightly lower resolution then 720, so that the frame does fit in the buffer without tiling.
after aa is implemented the frame is upscaled to 720p



in conclusion: first gen games suffer from the fact that they werent developed on real360 kits during their entire development cycle.

the good news is that second gen games will look alot better. not only AA wise but alos i terms of effects and number of polies (the Xenos architecture is radically different from current pc gpus, so devs need to come to grips with it)
The 360 has alot of headroom for improving visuals

[kdx80boy]

You even said yourself it looks just as good as the pc version.  That is all some of us want.  I myself don't want to send 2 or 3 grand for a pc when we can buy a video game system for less than a quarter of the price and have the same graffics.  You probably spend as much on the graffics card alone on a pc as you do on the whole xbox360 system and the xbox360 will almost never crash, but I'm pretty sure your pc will.

[m_hael]

QUOTE(Hajaz @ Nov 19 2005, 10:03 AM)

It's true that many 360 *launch* titles lack AA. i'll explain why.
... blah...

interesting perspective... wrong but interesting.

Predicated Tiling takes very little time to implement and has very few caveats all of which can be worked around .

most x360 games were NOT developed on PC, that wouldn't have worked as the CPU's are totally the wrong endianness (bytes are the opposite way around) and thus the change from PC->x360 when the kits came out would have been way too large.

developers who wanted to put out a release title got kits over 18months ago (we did) and went to countless training seminars regarding the CPU/GPU. Some of us didn't need the tutorials (having come from Gamecube) but others did.

Granted - 2nd gen games will have more polys, more shininess, more pazazz... will they have more gameplay - I doubt it.

[Hajaz]

QUOTE(m_hael @ Nov 19 2005, 06:37 PM)

interesting perspective... wrong but interesting.

[yaazz]

might not be a good idea to tell us what company you work for, i would keep it anonomous if I were you

[thax]

QUOTE(Hajaz @ Nov 19 2005, 08:15 PM)

ic. so why do they lack AA then?

Which titles are you claiming lack AA? The TCR requires AA to be on and at 1024x600 you get true free AA, so there is no reason for any title not to have AA on.

[esdubu]

m_hael works for neversoft, the creators of the tony hawk's games as he has stated a million times on these boards. If he tells you something about the way the 360 works you should listen to him as he has actually been working with it for a long time.

[unclepauly]

pgr3 upscale is a hoax. all 360 games have at least AAx2. 2nd gen games will have more gameplay. the unused cores told me so. the demos are unfinished product. pull my cord so i can talk some more.

[m_hael]

QUOTE(Hajaz @ Nov 19 2005, 12:15 PM)

ic. so why do they lack AA then?
mind sharing with us what softwarehouse you work for?
i'm also curious about the reason why pgr3 is beeing upscaled from 1000*600 to 720p if its not the one i stated

wow - read between the lines... if your game relies upon something affected by the aforementioned caveats then you either remove the feature or don't use predicated tiling.

the standards put forward by MS require a title to render to at least a 720p buffer with at least 2xAA. If any title is NOT doing this then they more than likely negociated it with MS beforehand. One thing I should mention however - its VERY hard to see the difference between 1000x600 and 720p, not saying they ARE upscaling but I am saying you probably wouldn't see the difference.

[Hajaz]

i'm sorry if my reply was coming across as hostile. was not intended.
i can perfectly accept that the info i gathered from beyond3d forums might be false.
the questions i asked were out of genuine intrest.


pgr3 is confirmed to do the upscaling thing by journalists who've taken direct framebuffer screencaps.

[jizmo]

QUOTE(m_hael @ Nov 20 2005, 05:52 AM)

wow - read between the lines... if your game relies upon something affected by the aforementioned caveats then you either remove the feature or don't use predicated tiling.

the standards put forward by MS require a title to render to at least a 720p buffer with at least 2xAA. If any title is NOT doing this then they more than likely negociated it with MS beforehand. One thing I should mention however - its VERY hard to see the difference between 1000x600 and 720p, not saying they ARE upscaling but I am saying you probably wouldn't see the difference.

That 600p is first upscaled to 720p, which is then upscaled to 1366x768, which is the normal resolution of LCD TVs these days. Two upscales can't be that good thing.

600p is a bummer in a fundamendal level; we did have real 720p games even on Xbox.

[m_hael]

QUOTE(jizmo @ Nov 20 2005, 04:13 AM)

That 600p is first upscaled to 720p, which is then upscaled to 1366x768, which is the normal resolution of LCD TVs these days. Two upscales can't be that good thing.

600p is a bummer in a fundamendal level; we did have real 720p games even on Xbox.

Where did you get this information from?
Any upscaling based on the TV side is NOT the fault of the 360; you should buy a TV that does 720p natively and stop bitchin about it.