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[Aldanga]

@Tiderium:

When I started reading your reply I thought it was going to be the normal whiny complaining that we hear all the time. However, your reasoning is sound. I actually made the comment to my brother that this is becoming vaporware; and it really is getting ridiculous.

Still, I won't crucify the devs like some people do. I think the biggest issue they have is not having a manager who knows when to say, "We need to release this already," and get things pushed out the door. The biggest problem (and blessing) coders have is that they're incredibly anal: they're always fixing things and never fully satisfied. That's great as long as you have limits, but it can kill a project very quickly if you're not careful.

I know the software will be awesome when released. Heck, I about jizzed myself when I saw the videos. But they're walking a fine line between ensuring a quality product and pursuing perfection. It's kind of reminiscent of Valve's antics, but we all know how great their products are. If this team turns into another Valve, it'll be tough to wait, but I won't be disappointed.

Before people tell me to code if I don't like how things are going: I'm working on getting to the point where I could actually be a help more than a hindrance to a project. Once I really feel comfortable working on stuff on my own, you can be sure I'll dive into a project or projects and start giving back.

[MaesterRowen]

Here's the thing-

If we released 3 weeks ago, people would complain nothing works.  

We can't win, so we release when we feel we're happy with it and when we feel it is an alpha version....

[tiderium]

If we released 3 weeks ago, people would complain nothing works." some whiners would yes most definitley you will always get that

"We can't win, so we release when we feel we're happy with it and when we feel it is an alpha version...." sounds almost like polyphony digital  (joking of course u would never delay that long)
There really is nothing anybody can say to that as it is your project (and I for one do not have the coding skills or the time to write something like FSD2) however would it not be better to have a team of people testing it out in the wild looking for bugs or issues to help and to help you and helldoc and all the other people in the team?

this is probaly going to sound whiny but when will you feel happy with it as from the docs you are only making tiny adjustments.

Please dont be offended by this I am a fan of FSD I would just like to see a release of FSD2 wo we can help with the devolpment by reporting any issues we may find.

to me the xbox community is very much like the amiga community back in the day there are helpful people out there who will take the time to report back bugs or issues and maybe even suggest a fix for them.

[kettenschutz]

... very nice explanation

but :

what will you do if your xbox just hangs up with 4 red lights of death after the first startup ?
Or what will you and your whole "amiga crew" do when you try to set an static preference via the FSD20 dashboard, and your xbox hungs up?

ah, and at least, what if your xbox wont power on again?
so, its damaged .. so, you maybe dont know how to reflash your XBR/freeboot image cause you bought your jtagged xbox in a shop ?

THIS, i think, is the trick which lets teamfsd wait for releasing.
there are a lot of different boxes, with different ppls

in some way, at some xbox, with some ppl could come a bug with bad features ...

let THEM check the sourcecode, and just wait.
grab your amiga back if it is to boring to wait .. monkey island is waiting
(loved this!)

[kettenschutz]

I never thougt that there were guys who HATE monkey island.
these games are really big milestones
but ... okai ...

i really can understood what you feel about the actual situation regarding fsd20
i hate it too,  that there comes tons of screenshots and videos, but absolutely NOTHING about a release date
only blah, flaming, hating, gaggaggagagagag, the stuff that comes every time from those mama-kids
(the flaming ones, not TeamFSD!)

but we arent allowed to claim about this situation
FSD is FREE, FSD looks great, FSD IS(!) the Future of the xbox360 Homebrew scene
i know that, you know that, TeamFSD knows that.

so they cant release any shit ...

Last but not least : HellDoc, Maester, please stop creating tons of nice vids without further release infos
that makes the comm hot and dirty ....
just make vids of really new stuff, and do your blogstuff (which is really cool)

[Aldanga]

QUOTE(MaesterRowen @ Jul 10 2010, 09:27 AM)

Here's the thing-

If we released 3 weeks ago, people would complain nothing works.  

We can't win, so we release when we feel we're happy with it and when we feel it is an alpha version....

Very true. It's a double-edged sword. I understand that this release is a major overhaul of the code and requires a lot of work because of that. I think the biggest cause of unhappiness is that people feel they've been teased. Videos and screenshots and talk of releasing in the near future. If release hadn't been referenced, I don't think there'd be as much outcry.

The talk here seems to be between people who've had a lot of experience with this sort of thing. My comments haven't been to be critical for its own sake, but to suggest that methods of release and communication with the community might need to be revised. Am I stepping into territory where I probably shouldn't be? Yeah, it's possible.

If you have an alpha release and state all of the things which are broken and say in the release notes that it's not close to being stable, people have no right to complain. An alpha isn't meant for stability, but for testing and implementation. People shouldn't expect more than that. If they do, they're idiots and should learn not to open their mouths.

In the end, I say thanks to the team. I'm really excited about this and extremely grateful for all of the work you guys have put into this. I can't imagine all that you've done, but I've seen some of the logs and it's extremely detailed. I can see all the bugs you're addressing and I'm thankful for it. Keep up the good work, fellas.  

[WorldFormula]

QUOTE(MaesterRowen @ Jul 10 2010, 10:27 AM)

Here's the thing-

If we released 3 weeks ago, people would complain nothing works.  

We can't win, so we release when we feel we're happy with it and when we feel it is an alpha version....

I don't even care, take as long as you like. What you've done already is beyond ridiculous, and for free? I'm not the only one who is impressed. Keep up the good work guys!

[omegastar]

There will be a release within a week from now. Dont ask how I know but just know that there will be.

[tiderium]

Is anyone else having trouble trying to look at http://trac.teamfsd.com/log
 Its not loading up anymore.

[hfmls]

yeah doesn't work.
even old tracking svn

[tiderium]

wonder of http://trac has gone the same way as fortunecity forums

[Drefsab]

its the whole teamfsd site.

[Ssseth]

For those who haven't seen it yet, here are some vids and pics to whet your appetite. Looking great!

http://www.xblog-360...videospictures/

[tiderium]

Wasn't working earlier working now though

[kanknast]

QUOTE(tiderium @ Jul 11 2010, 03:56 PM)

I accept I'm going to get flamed for this and accept it...

me @ you: flame flame flame! (in the words of insult, the comic dog) i kid, i kid!

i see both sides to this argument.  i check this thread daily for a whiff of new FSD action, only to be met with disappointment.  same time, i know the longer we let team FSD polish their code, the more like Christmas morning it will be when it's finally released.  in the end, however,  i consistently conclude that it's their project, and so we should try our best not to drive them insane.

peace and love all 'round.  i'm grateful for this site and for all of the prodigies out there that allow me to make more of my Xbox3(RLOD)60.