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[Xbox-Scene]

Xbox Team on Backwards Compatibility-- Posted by XanTium on April 5 14:51 EST
From the Xbox Development Team:

Xbox is based on a Pentium III processor, while Xbox 360 is based on a custom triple-core PowerPC processor co-developed with IBM.  This is but one of many differences between the platforms, but one people are familiar with.  Digging deeper, you would find that nearly everything has changed.  Graphics, audio, networking, etc. have all been replaced with different subsystems.

Xbox games all run on the assumption they are being run on the exact set of original hardware.  Changing anything usually means breaking some kind of behavior games depend upon.  Therefore, Xbox 360's backwards compatibility had to emulate the exact configuration of an original Xbox.

One way to do this is embed the parts of an original Xbox into an Xbox 360.  This was the path Sony chose to use in PlayStation 2's compatibility.  However, Microsoft doesn't own the intellectual property in Xbox: it's owned by various other companies including Intel.  Microsoft wouldn't have the freedom to take the parts needed for compatibility, shrink them down, and put them inside Xbox 360.  And no one would want a bigger power supply any way

Another option is software emulation.  Many of you already know this is the path Microsoft has chosen.  Our software emulator works much like emulators for other platforms like SNES and Genesis.  However, one key difference to keep in mind is that the Xbox emulator is emulating the immediate previous generation of games.  Most emulators come out many years after a console has launched and run on PCs that represent quantum leaps in performance.

Read More: Xbox Development Team Blog

[lmaolmao]

QUOTE(Xbox-Scene @ Apr 5 2006, 08:58 PM)

quantum leaps

OH BOY!

[Gobelet]

QUOTE

However, one key difference to keep in mind is that the Xbox emulator is emulating the immediate previous generation of games. Most emulators come out many years after a console has launched and run on PCs that represent quantum leaps in performance.

Well cxbx was a nice project, which worked kind of well, because of the simple architecture of the first Xbox. After all, it's basically a PC. It couldn't be that hard to emulate.

Why was it dropped, by the way?

This post has been edited by Gobelet: Apr 5 2006, 08:44 PM

[jasdev]

awesome, its good to know they thought of the consumers reaction to placing old parts in the 360 b4 actually doing it, and went with software emulators

[downlowfunk]

sad but true.   Shoulda said,   "if you want xbox games get an xbox, if you want 360 games, get a 360."  Then invested money into older emulators and struck deals to sell legal legacy DRMed roms on live.    That woulda been HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    (IMG:style_emoticons/default/muhaha.gif)

[stezo2k]

QUOTE(Gobelet @ Apr 5 2006, 09:14 PM)

Well cxbx was a nice project, which worked kind of well, because of the simple architecture of the first Xbox. After all, it's basically a PC. It couldn't be that hard to emulate.

Why was it dropped, by the way?

yeah it was quite good, probably due to MS i recon but i cant be sure

interesting article btw, i'm still quite impressed that the 360 is so powerful it can actually fully emulate an xbox1, i mean it would require a hell of a lot of CPU power unless it used high level emulation

[Itcouldbeyou]

@Gobelet
Well they still could team up with Reactos, port it over to PowerPC and then use Cxbx to... Well theyre the Windows guys they have the source code anyway...
Probably its easier the way they do it

And: Heck yes theyre using some kind of high level emulation, I don't think the 360 would be powerfull enough to run the Xbox in a VMware or VirtualPC or alike!

[Altima NEO]

the truth is that emulating something so recent is hard
yeah, there are xbox emulators, but none of them emulate perfectly
the fact that ms can even emulate as many games as they have at the quality that they have been getting is amazing work

its also cool to note, that MS acknoledges snes and genesis emulators, lol

[ArkitekT]

Sounds like a crappy excuse for No Backwards Compatibility on all games.
Obviously it can be done.
They have already done it.
Perhaps this is an excuse for only a few games being backwards compatible and not all right away.
This all works in M$ favor because they now get to choose what is and is not compatible and we the consumer are at the mercy of this giant corporation.
Kinda funny how that works.
Even if they could make them all backwards compatible right away (and who knows they may have that ability and are feeding us all a line of crap, i am not THAT tech savvy to say whether they can or can't) M$ still wouldn't because they can still reap the benefits of the original xbox, which would be useless if backwards compatibility for xbox were 100%.
We are not that stupid M$!
ArkitekT

[psyantist]

"We are not that stupid M$!"
-ArkitekT

Don't lump me in with your retarded ass.  Who effen cares if the 360 is backwards compatable anyway.  Nobody can sit here and say they spend a majority of their time playing old games from old systems.  If they do, they are in need of a roundhouse kick to the face from Chuck Norris.  Hell, I can't even go back and play 1st generation games cause they are so antiquated, let alone play nes or genesis crap.

Backwards compatability is all novelty and the only "cool" thing is the ability to play xbox games at a slightly higher resolution, if that is "cool".  Get off MS, at least they are trying to do something.  And for your conspiracy theory of being at the giant corporation's mercy of what is and isn't compatable........lay down the bong.....paranoid freak.

[C-5]

MS should have just said that the 360 will NOT be backwards compatible and skipped it. All of the bitching would be over by now, and they could put the programers, that are writing these emulators, to work on the next great 360 game.

If I want to play an original Xbox game... I turn on one of my original Xboxes.

[Statecowboy]

QUOTE(psyantist @ Apr 5 2006, 05:47 PM)

"We are not that stupid M$!"
-ArkitekT

Don't lump me in with your retarded ass.  Who effen cares if the 360 is backwards compatable anyway.  Nobody can sit here and say they spend a majority of their time playing old games from old systems.  If they do, they are in need of a roundhouse kick to the face from Chuck Norris.  Hell, I can't even go back and play 1st generation games cause they are so antiquated, let alone play nes or genesis crap.

Backwards compatability is all novelty and the only "cool" thing is the ability to play xbox games at a slightly higher resolution, if that is "cool".  Get off MS, at least they are trying to do something.  And for your conspiracy theory of being at the giant corporation's mercy of what is and isn't compatable........lay down the bong.....paranoid freak.

Wow, a little touchy.  And I CAN say that the majority of my time is spent playing older games online with my friends who can't afford or find a 360.  And old NES and SNES stuff is not crap, some of those games have a lot higher "playable" factor than a lot of newer gen games that might look flashy.  

It's kind of like buying an older car.  You don't buy it to get the latest and greatest of things, you buy it for it's classic appeal.  Either way, no need to be such a dick.

[erexx]

QUOTE

"I hope Sony doesn't alienate gamers based on an excuse like technical requirements."

The only "excuses" I hear are coming from the Xbox Team.

[Martinchris23]

I have mixed feelings about this blog.

It's nice to see some output from the Xbox camp in relation to BC, even if it looks like an excuse to generate sympathy for the lack of BC games.

Sure, explaining what's involved to write an emulator is pretty cool if you're not a coder/programmer/debugger. But let's not forget - you're the ones getting paid the big bucks to do this! Surely you're just doing your job?? Hell, lets talk about REAL dedication - the guys who write the earlier generation console emulators who get paid diddly squat for their efforts. In all seriousness, if it's your job to write an Xbox emulator for the 360, then stop whining and do it already!!!!!

I would LOVE to see more Xbox games playable on the 360 - there are so many out there which still have a huge playability factor combined with some excellent value deals, it only makes sense to keep it alive.

If you're having trouble emulating the Xbox on the 360 (and it really does both look and sound that way), then why not release a dev kit to the public for others to work on this? I know of quite a few emulation groups who would love the chance to get their teeth into the project.

Even though I don't think it would be utilised, advertising the 360 as 100% fully BC with Xbox games would be HUGE boost in popularity. Even though the PS2 was BC with the PlayStation, a lot of people didn't really take advantage of the fact - having the ability was enough. Considering the PS3 is released later this year and will probably be advertised as 100% fully BC with previous PlayStation/PS2 games, any leverage you have on shifting people to 360 before the PS3 release will be a big advantage.

My 2c, for what they're worth!

[compton]

their comment about Systems being emulated by computers that are Quantum leaps above is off base.

just Last generation PSX was almost flawlessly emulated by PC's who's stats are barely worth remembering and there has been little change since. i remember renting games and coping them to my HD with CDRWin and playing them with ePSXe on their release date (FFIX.)it was harder to find games that didn't work, although most required some small game specific tweaks.
unlike a free PSX emulator, the XBox 360 reverse game compatability IS the EXCEPTION.But if they want to make there jobs sound harder then they really are, then so be it.

You would think they are emulating the 360 on an original XBox, the way they make it sound...