Print

[RiotShift]

You guys should be grateful, all the best xbox games run on the 360. Halo, Halo 2, Ninja Gaiden+Black, The DoAs, Black, Fable, Forza, sega gt, GTAs, Tony hawks, Halflife 2, Jade Empire, Metal Arms, NFSU2, Pariah, The best Star Wars games, Theif, All Tom clancy's GOOD games not shitty new rainbow sixes.  I could go on, shit even Genma Ominusha, and Fuzion Frenzy works.  All these games ARE the top selling games on xbox right now , so you know m$ isnt screwing anyone over for profit.  The only game i wonder about, is my beloved morrowind.  While i do understand some of your hatred towards M$ as they are not everyones best friend, but shit they have created a great console in the 360, and i am fully enjoying every feature that it has.


Remember Bc was never gonna be implemented in the first place.  So be thankful.

This post has been edited by RiotShift: May 23 2006, 03:12 PM

[monkeyhands]

I think these new comments from MS that "people arn't bothered about backwards compat" is a crock of shit.

People are bothered, and prior to launch they said that "Ultimatley, our goal is for all Xbox games to run on 360"

Now what? They are making press releases saying "But it's sooo difficult to write cos all the components are different". Like that justifies anything.

I don't know what you lot do for a living, but I wish I could hand in shit reports to Courts and just say "Sorry it's a bit shit and not what I promised, it's just that it's really difficult"

I'd be out on my arse.

[Vidness]

QUOTE(RiotShift @ May 23 2006, 02:35 PM)

You guys should be grateful, all the best xbox games run on the 360. Halo, Halo 2, Ninja Gaiden+Black, The DoAs, Black, Fable, Forza, sega gt, GTAs, Tony hawks, Halflife 2, Jade Empire, Metal Arms, NFSU2, Pariah, The best Star Wars games, Theif, All Tom clancy's GOOD games not shitty new rainbow sixes.  I could go on, shit even Genma Ominusha, and Fuzion Frenzy works.  All these games ARE the top selling games on xbox right now , so you know m$ isnt screwing anyone over for profit.  The only game i wonder about, is my beloved morrowind.  While i do understand some of your hatred towards M$ as they are not everyones best friend, but shit they have created a great console in the 360, and i am fully enjoying every feature that it has.
Remember Bc was never gonna be implemented in the first place.  So be thankful.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 isn't emulated, and I bet it goes for more than any game you've listed on ebay.

[Kitsunisan]

QUOTE(compton @ Apr 5 2006, 07:12 PM)

their comment about Systems being emulated by computers that are Quantum leaps above is off base.

just Last generation PSX was almost flawlessly emulated by PC's who's stats are barely worth remembering and there has been little change since. i remember renting games and coping them to my HD with CDRWin and playing them with ePSXe on their release date (FFIX.)it was harder to find games that didn't work, although most required some small game specific tweaks.
unlike a free PSX emulator, the XBox 360 reverse game compatability IS the EXCEPTION.But if they want to make there jobs sound harder then they really are, then so be it.

You would think they are emulating the 360 on an original XBox, the way they make it sound...

Hmm, off topic, I know, but could I get a link to that?  Nevermind, I could Google ePSXe, I guess.  Anyway, I also play alot of my old X-Box games (still love Republic Commando), but it would be nice to be able to lose that big black clunker and play them all on a 360.  New compatibility list just came out, and I'm disappointed at how few additions have been made.  Martin C. was right in asking why a full emulator isn't on the 360, instead of individual game emulators.  How many emulators do you know of need a separate file for each game?  It should be possible to create one that fully emulates the old X-Box.  M$ does have all the programming codes at their disposal, after all.

This post has been edited by Kitsunisan: Jun 26 2006, 03:36 AM

[rayodin]

i am not really sure where most of you guys are getting the figures and values on some of this shit, the 360 should easily be able to emulate the first xbox games, for 2 very important reasons. first of all, the tri-core processor that they used this time around is actually equivalent to 3.2 ghz per core and thats before hyper threading, which if it gets what most modern cpu's do that would be and additional 1ghz per core, making this easily over 10 ghz in total. all 3 can and will be used in running anything the 360 does. same goes for the new chip they made for the PS3. the system would only have to emulate at the equivalent of about 3/4 of a ghz, which is nothing to the 10+ ghz your getting from this cpu. also they reason that emulators take larger systems to run on on than is being emulated is because you are still running the base OS/Dashboard in the background. so as a case in point, when you are running a snes emu on the xbox its running the xbox dashboard  and the emu then the game in the emu, thus adding a much larger load. i honestly can't see the 360 cpu not being up to running the xbox OS/dashboard.

now for the second reason that the 360 should be able to easily run all the xbox games..... because it wouldn't have to emulate it at all, since Microsoft owns the OS/Dashboard for the original they could just piggy back it on the system like Nintendo did with the wii. see when Nintendo first dropped the wii they released it containing to separate dashboards, so when you boot a game cube game your actually switching to an entirely different feature.  this is why none of the wii controllers can be used in the game cube stuff and vise versa, this means you can't use online games from the game cube with the wii, because the wii turns off the usb ports and the wireless card when you switch to the cube OS/dash. so as i said if Nintendo can do it so can Microsoft. there would be no new coding needed aside from hardware application. which since its their baby they could do in a heartbeat.

but that is just what i know about this matter, feel free to find reasons they couldn't if you still think they couldn't have from the beginning.

[scuba156]

sorry to say, but your post is completly wrong.

each core is not 3.2Ghz, the total CPU clock speed is 3.2GHz, that is its clock speed nothing more. having a triple core helps take the load of the other cores and makes it complete tasks faster, but does NOT increase its clock speed. emulating a 700MHz machine on a 3.2GHz machine is NOT easy, have a look at some of the xbox emus for PC, they can only emulate 2 games, and even with top of the line PC, they still run under 10FPS

the reason the 360 cannot do a complete backwards compatibilty so easily is because there is NO original xbox hardware inside the 360 and that is MS's mistake as they did not liscence the original xbox hardware. otherwise, they would still be paying other companies for the hardware, and this is the same reason they dis continued support for the original xbox. its not just about having the xbox software on the console (which the xbox 360 does have parts of the original xbox software on the HDD) as the hardware architecture is completly different. if they did include the xbox hardware inside the 360, then you would be paying between $50 to $100 more per console due to it being un licenced from MS

its not backround processes than make emulating take a hit in speed, its because it has to read the data and convert it on the fly into commands the machine its running on can understand. the original xbox emus did not have the dshboard running in the backround, when ever a game or program would run, the dashboard would actually close

while it is easier for MS to emulate there own games as they already know the function calls, its still notan easy job as they have to quilaty test every game and check for any bugs or glitches that the BC creates

[aeroforce325]

i think it would be an extremely stupid idea for MS to stop the backward compatible updates.....especially if they intend to make their next system backward compatible with 360 games, which they might due to the fiasco over the issue this gen, and the possibility of them screwing up with w/e they decide to say during the development of the next console.  if they decide to implement it in the next console, and license the hardware needed.....and lets just speculate that they decide to make the next cnnsole region free in the games area like PS3 this gen....then in this situation the backward compatible updates could be continued this gen and get the backward compatibility up to about 98% total worldwide.  

then when this gen ends and the development of the next console begins they could go about refining each regional backward compatibility update to a point where each region specific game will then run on any regional console allowing for universal play next gen since the next xbox may be backward compatible with 360 games and hence would have all it needs to support xbox 360 backward compatibility updates.  this is completely possible since the updates are based on emulators and clearly from what the U.S. regional backward compatibility update list shows is that apparantly some japanese only games have been apparantly made to work with a NTSC-U/C region console and that the emulators arent region specific.  examples for reference:  Magatama and Guilty Gear Isuka.  Magatama is region specific to just asia and japan, while Guilty Gear Isuka from what i gathered on it is just japanese, though i dont doubt an asian region version was made.  it would also be possible, cause going on the assumption MS uses backward compatibility for 360 games in their next console, and license the necessary hardware to do so, then that would give that console the means to utilize backward compatibility updates from this gen to allow original xbox games to run on it.

now there are more examples of other regional titles on the U.S. list as well, but i wont go into mentioning specific games.  needless to say there are PAL region encoded games as well as other NTSC-J region coded games as well.  if you look and know where to find release info for the games then you will see this as well.

now if they decide backward compatibility will be in the next console (i'm pretty sure they arent decided on the issue, along with other issues regarding next gen), then they will of course have advantages over their xbox originals download service.  advantages such as giving gamers the chance of having a complete game experience both online and offline.  right now i believe i'm right in saying that (correct me if i am wrong) the xbox originals downloads dont have any interaction with XBL.....it's essentially broken.  MS claims they want to see more original xbox titles played over XBL.  downloading the games doesnt solve this, due to the fact that the feature is broken in the games.  with an actual physical copy you can have players online with the original titles.  and while the numbers of players for original titles isnt high enough according to MS to continue BC updates, the fact remains that there are players on certain titles playing original xbox games.  with the downloads of said games......you get the idea.  honestly it's like MS created a double standard in a way.  in one instance they want the games played online.  in another they now want the games downloaded from online via XBL and lose online functionality.  

it should be clear to MS that continuing backward compatible updates should continue, even though it isnt the most appealing situation to them.

[scuba156]

im not going to bother with the whole clock speed thing. ive been working with PC's for over 10 years, i know whats going on and where your getting confused but i dont have to time to explain it right now, also when its already available on the net. the PS3 does not has 7 'cores', there are 7 SPE's which work completely different than a core. if the xbox 360 did run at 9.6Ghz, then the CPU would instantly fry with the cooling its got. i seen an article (cant remember where but you can look it up) where they had a 5Ghz CPU, they needed to use liquid nitrogen just to get it into operating temperatures. search this topic 'xbox 360 9.6Ghz' and read. the CPU cores are running parallel, not in a series. if they were running in a series then you would be right (but currently, no CPU has multiple cores that run in series)

the xbox 360 has no original xbox hardware, so they have to use software emulation which they were doing. the wii has gamecube hardware in it, which it calls on when a gamecube game is inserted, so there is no need for software emulation. the PS3 older models has the PS2 emotion chip in it which was used for BC, no software emulation needed, the newer PS3 models have no emotion chip, hence they do not allow PS2 BC without software emulation.

microsoft did not license the original xbox hardware, instead they were paying royalties per xbox sold. now, if they wanted to put that hardware in the xbox 360, they would have to pay royalties per xbox 360 sold and that is going to reduce there profit, and increase the price of the console. they never licensed the original xbox hardware . this is the same reason they discontinued the xbox, it was just too costly for them. never did i say that microsoft has there own hardware department, or that they manufacture there own hardware.it has nothing to do with the OS (im not denying the OS is used, as a matter of fact its used in all consoles even the 360)

it had nothing to do with timing, it has to do with money, in the long run, its not worth the money to include the xbox hardware inside the 360.

[georaldc]

QUOTE

so i believe you might want to look into the setup of mutli-core processors, each core is a separate processor, as an example in the case of 2 of the pc's in my house both of which i built, one has a 2.8 ghz dual core amd 5600+ which supports hyper threading so thats 2.8 + 2.8 + the ability to run a second set of processes at as high as 2 ghz per core, giving me just about 8 ghz.

Sorry to go offtopic, but I was just wondering. Isn't hyper threading an intel cpu feature? If what you say is true, shouldnt' that 8ghz cpu of yours decimate my e8400 3ghz cpu? lol.

I always thought amd rated they're cpu's differently from INTEL, and that they're cpu names would correspond to what they would rate compared to intel cpus. Example, I had an amd 3200+ before, and that's rated at only 2ghz. But since its called a 3200+, its actually rated at 3.2ghz if you look at programs that scan your hardware like 3dmark I believe. Now on to x2 cpus, say we have an x2 6000+, its actually rated at 3ghz. But since it has 2 cores, it would be like having 2 3ghz cores, so that would be like 6ghz (hence the name).