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[medievil]

QUOTE(guenthar @ Nov 22 2009, 11:26 AM)

What do you think stripping the console of it's code signing rights is except a modification of the code on the console.  They wrote a piece of software that did that and that software would be considered a virus since it got on your console without your permission and knowledge.

The updates you get are done with your permission since it says you need to update and unless it has changed since I last updated it is your choice to update and isn't forced upon you.  (I know you can't play newer games without it but that is up to you)

PS.  They don't have the right to revoke the signing rights on your console unless you give them permission to do so.  No TOS allows someone to break the law and commit a criminal offense.

don't have the right?? sure they do.. you are LICENSED the signing rights on the console provided you abide by the TOS.. if you break that, they have the right to revoke your license.. no different than if powerdvd or some other PC app caught you spreading your key, they can revoke it...

you own the hardware, you do NOT own the software that runs on that hardware...M$ can make any changes to that software that they wish...

[guenthar]

Like I said a TOS doesn't surpass the law and any part that violates law can be ignored and by law purposeful spreading of a virus is a crime.  There are laws that prevent contracts from circumventing the law and it is good that it exists because that would be happening all the time.

PS.  This is not the same as powerdvd revoking  your key since they would be doing that in future updates which you "choose" to install which means that isn't a virus.  If your key gets revoked for powerdvd then you just can't update which is similar to not having access to live but you would still be able to use the version you still have.

PPS.  Please don't use things that can't even be compared to this situation as a argument.  Revoking your key for a piece of software is like banning you from live.  What Microsoft did would be like revoking your key and also sending you a virus to disable functionality in the software without your knowledge.

[quall]

I agree. I am not understanding what the Terms of Use [service] has to do with unrelated features that are not a part of the service. You broke the terms of service, so now MS has the right to disable Windows Media Center and other features? Canceling your service is one thing, but they are crippling your system. If they cancel your service, the console should work just as it did before you agreed to the ToU. It does not. In fact, they don't even cancel your service. They just cripple (not just block) the system you are using. How is that in their right?

I know their claim is that the ToS gave them rights to modify the hardware and software associated with the service. I just don't think anybody knew that their right extended to crippling unrelated features or functionality unrelated to the service. Under this agreement, you even unknowingly gave them the right to fry your console if they wanted to. I just don't know how this will fly legally.

PS I don't have a modded console.

[gamezall]

everyone fails to realize that they banned the hardware, and all that should have happened was the account that you aggred to the TOS should have been banned.  They disabled the my hardware from connecting and my TOS was signed about the account.

[joaoxbox360]

QUOTE(cilo911 @ Nov 24 2009, 08:04 AM)

Possession is 9/10 of the law everything in that box is yours when u left the store

thats like saying that copy of Taken on blu ray i bought isnt mine and they can come take it off me when they want

or my microwave isnt mine  and they could come take it from me cuz i rigged it to work with the door open

or ky can take my jelly from me cuz i'm using it the wrong way

or how about this i modded my lights in my Scion so now the dealership is coming for me

oh no i unlocked my Iphone be afraid people bricking codes r coming on the next update

cant wait to read a response lol

don't be a smart ass. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grr.gif)  you don't modd your console to look nice but to play backups. your examples don't aply because what you altered was software not hardware. and M$ didn't mess with your console or your hdd, it's exactly untouched. They remove software features because you violate the terms of agreement, that's applicable to any software you owe.

you never own software (go back and read it again an again), just a licence to use it and according to the terms you agree when you started using it.

you're just dumb playing smart. Sorry but it's true. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

pay for an antivirus license and then put the code online an see what happens.

This post has been edited by joaoxbox360: Yesterday, 09:18 AM

[cilo911]

what software says and what rights u have as a person is 2 different things

how many times have u seen laws inplace and then changed to suit the people

get enough angry people and u have the power to do anything

this dude probably hasnt been on earth too long since u doesntr know his ass from a hole in the ground, get outside and see whats going on out there and maybe watch some news....


We the people run the country not the law or the companies they change there ways to suit us when we get mad now go google something and stfu

FYI i never modded my dash so y do theyu get the right to change my dash

oh yeah i never got banned i'm just speaking for the ton of people that did.....

[guenthar]

There is nothing in copyright law that allows a company to change data on your system.  By you just owning a license to the software it allows them to make a TOS/EULA that says they can do that but a TOS/EULA is a contract and has to abide by laws.

PS.  Microsoft has never done anything like the "black screen" you mentioned as a counter measure to stop pirated versions of Windows from working.  The only thing they have done is create "Windows Genuine Advantage" which if it detects your Windows installation as a not legal copy it won't let you download updates (other then security updates) and puts an image on your desktop saying that the Windows version isn't a legal copy of Windows.  I would know about any kind of anti-piracy measure that stopped Windows from working since I repair computers all the time and keep up with this kind of thing.  We actually had to repair a computer that had the "Windows Genuine Advantage" warning on their desktop just a few days ago.

PPS.  Copyright law only protects the copyright holder from copyright infringement and doesn't give the copyright holder the rights to modify or destroy the product while in the possession of the license holder.  Since the license holder doesn't own the product the copyright holder can create a contract that the licensee has to abide by in order to use the product.  In the contact the copyright holder can say that the licensee can't modify the product or use it in a matter not covered by the contract.  If a person violates the terms of the contract their license to the product can be revoked.  If the license is revoked the continued possession of the product would constitute copyright infringement.  With continued possession of the product the copyright holder has the right to pursue a law suit against the copyright infringer.

The above is what a copyright holder can do and they cannot go into your system and disable your use of the system.  They can't do that because it says what their rights are in the situation right within copyright law and also they have to abide by the laws.

PPPS.  If you want to continue to argue then read copyright law and show proof of your argument and try to prove me wrong rather then just trying to put your opinion forth as fact.  If you show me something that is proof then I will quote from law with links directly to the quote to disprove you.

EDIT:  They don't have the right to change your dash but they can revoke your license if in their TOS it says the software can't be used on a modified console or on anything not covered by the TOS.  At that time if you stay in possession of the console you would be committing copyright infringement and then they have the right to sue you.

This post has been edited by guenthar: Yesterday, 03:59 PM

[m4n0w4r]

QUOTE(cilo911 @ Nov 24 2009, 04:30 PM)

We the people run the country not the law or the companies they change there ways to suit us when we get mad now go google something and stfu

I may only be 19 but I know thats not true

People don't rule , Thats not really how Democracy works. Leaders make decision without the peoples backing all the time ( Generally most wars , IRAQ was hugely contested in uk and kind of in the us as well . Still happen , no nuclear bombs found )

When the mob have there way things go wrong , everyone want better houses , live without their means . Huge economic crisis

pirates are in the minority in this case and you don't have many things on your side , a few hundred angry thiefs isn't best backing

[joaoxbox360]

QUOTE(cilo911 @ Nov 24 2009, 04:30 PM)

what software says and what rights u have as a person is 2 different things

how many times have u seen laws inplace and then changed to suit the people

get enough angry people and u have the power to do anything

this dude probably hasnt been on earth too long since u doesntr know his ass from a hole in the ground, get outside and see whats going on out there and maybe watch some news....
We the people run the country not the law or the companies they change there ways to suit us when we get mad now go google something and stfu

FYI i never modded my dash so y do theyu get the right to change my dash

oh yeah i never got banned i'm just speaking for the ton of people that did.....

how is the weather over there in Cuba? it must be nice!  

VIVA LA REVOLUTION, PATRIA O MUERTE

[MyDogAteIt]

Micothugs can get away with copying every operating system that Apple does and makes BILLIONS! And now they are copying their stores. Screw MS!

[Darkelysium]

QUOTE(medievil @ Nov 19 2009, 07:43 PM)

sorry but  am not wrong.. a link to an article about someone filing a complaint doesn't make me wrong or make it legal.
 They Have exclusive rights to everything involving the respective sports.. even down to images(pictures of players) and their voice. Has nothing to do with money or power and everything to do with copyright laws.
Are they concerned with you giving a play by play to a buddy?? no, but if you try to broadcast that play by play and turn a profit, they can and will come down hard...
and again, if you do a little research you are 100% wrong.. Dishnetwork was notorious for corrupting the tsop in their recievers via ECM when they detected an illegal card.
 

Microsoft has EVERY right to corrupt your profile and saves that you obtained on a illegally modified console, most likely on pirated software. What you are arguing is like trying to argue that if you rob a bank you still have the right to keep the stuff you bought with the money you stole..lol

is it retaliation?? could be, but that is in their right..as long as they are not harming you physically
Peopl;e whining are acting like it is some crime that M$ wants to make money or turn a profit. Thats is their ENTIRE sole purpose. They live and breath to make money...to me that whole thing just reeks of sour grapes...

**CRY** they corrupted my games saves when they caguht me being a pirate **CRY**



be thankful they are not suing

FYI by law they don't and for the record you are an idiot. The cards dishnetwork corrupted were legally there property as you had to in most cases reprogram their own cards to steal tv. I would advise you to not comment on things that you apparently have no experience with.

[medievil]

QUOTE(Darkelysium @ Nov 26 2009, 08:22 AM)

FYI by law they don't and for the record you are an idiot. The cards dishnetwork corrupted were legally there property as you had to in most cases reprogram their own cards to steal tv. I would advise you to not comment on things that you apparently have no experience with.

FYI they do.. M$ owns every scrap of code on a 360, down to the custom format on the HD, the custom format of game saves, etc..
 guess what, game saves are signed by a Key that M$ owns.. if they revoke that key, and you try to move your data, ooops...your bad. Had you not moved it it wouldn't have corrupted. Had you not modded your 360, your key wouldn't have been revoked.


 As has been pointed out repeatedly..
 M$ never touched ANY of your code.. they revoked the key you need to SIGN the code because they caught you shafting them by modding your 360.
 Or are you really going to try to argue that they don't have the right to revoke your key??


oh and another FYI.. Dishnetwork corrupted the code on those cards... same as Microsoft, they removed a key in the Code they own...both were done at the detection of modified hardware/code (The firmware on the drive is also copyrighted and customized by M$)

flashing the drive is the same as reprogramming a card....in fact the principle behind the process is even very close to being identical

The feature OOTB argument falls flat as well...since if you took a update earlier this year, your features OOTB changed and you didn't complain then.

[Chancer]

QUOTE(sgr215 @ Nov 19 2009, 05:48 AM)

Two facts people whining about the complaint need to be aware of:


2) In regards to the law, banning a console could be considered the same as banning your live account; depending on the judges interpretation. A console ban would effectively remove your ability to play on live unless you do one of two things;

a) Own more than one 360

Buy another 360

That's not a fact it is nonsense. Banning a live account means you can create another one on the same console in a different name. Banning a console prevents any account being made or used on live. They are two wholly different things.

[blueinfinity]

QUOTE(medievil @ Nov 26 2009, 05:01 AM)

FYI they do.. M$ owns every scrap of code on a 360, down to the custom format on the HD, the custom format of game saves, etc..
 guess what, game saves are signed by a Key that M$ owns.. if they revoke that key, and you try to move your data, ooops...your bad. Had you not moved it it wouldn't have corrupted. Had you not modded your 360, your key wouldn't have been revoked.
 As has been pointed out repeatedly..
 M$ never touched ANY of your code.. they revoked the key you need to SIGN the code because they caught you shafting them by modding your 360.
 Or are you really going to try to argue that they don't have the right to revoke your key??
oh and another FYI.. Dishnetwork corrupted the code on those cards... same as Microsoft, they removed a key in the Code they own...both were done at the detection of modified hardware/code (The firmware on the drive is also copyrighted and customized by M$)

flashing the drive is the same as reprogramming a card....in fact the principle behind the process is even very close to being identical

The feature OOTB argument falls flat as well...since if you took a update earlier this year, your features OOTB changed and you didn't complain then.

You sir are an idiot, And I free here on out refuse to respond to any of your simple minded and unfounded statements. If you were correct in this BS explain to me why M$ didnt jsut wipe the console? and don't tell me they were being nice. They knew they couldn't. this was there way of trying to sneak in under the law and stick it to the modders.

[gamemaster14]

Personally I look at it this way, by going on xbox live you are promising Microsoft that you will in no way modify their console, code or anything else. By modifying your firmware to play stolen games you are violating that agreement. I think Microsoft is in their rights to do whatever they want since you have broken the agreement. The give and they shall take away, if disabling your consoles online ability and removing all the features their FREE updates have provided you is what it takes then so be it.

Taking legal action against a company that you are stealing from makes no sense. It would be like stealing a dvd from a store then trying to take it back because you dont like it and then getting mad when they report you to the cops.