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[armyof1ne]

QUOTE(icet62 @ Nov 8 2009, 08:45 PM)

There is no way they would ban just for using a hard drive from a banned console on a never touched console, and on top of that everything would be crupted and you would have to format it to the new console so you would have a clean slate to re-start with anyway that is if you actually wanted to use the full hard drive to put games on.

I theorized this before i had proof... Its retarded to save information on nands because space is limited... Especially earlier generations... They wouldnt do a half ass job with this...  The standard size nands and ram(Non-volatile and Volatile) Hence why they wouldnt use those...  If that data is stored on the HDD All it would require would be a broadcast inquiry to all xbox 360's connected to live... it isnt that inconceivable.  Im sure microsoft(most being the dumbarses they are) didnt think that through much like the RROD and the warping of the board from expansion and contraction... I mean honestly... if they had people so smart working for them, you would think they could add in the equation of hot and cold in their system and the effects of those variables.... This is the type of company your dealing with dude... Plus, they could really give a damn about your other consoles because guess what.. one was already banned, Why not any others your stupid enough to put that HDD on...  If ever you were to move it... clear all cache and reformat(But i doubt that information is on the standard partition, Once i get a banned console's hdd, i can break down literally everything and figure everything hopefully) But seriously... like i said, your dealing with microsoft here... they arent known for being super intelligent... This is just another blunder some dumbarse coder didnt see or purposely did

QUOTE(knodi @ Nov 8 2009, 08:02 PM)

Your friend should sue then. I wish my unmodified 360 was banned cus of HDD swap. I would file a class action law suit.

I thought the LIVE packets payload is encrypted.

If i was microsoft it would be encrypted... im not 100% sure if its fully encrypted... Once i get it in and do some testing, i will be able to capture all packets up to the time of being banned and review them over time... This will be a lengthy process if algorithm is intense, but since i can remember it being done before with Halo3 hacks... Im sure i can get ahold of some people with more reputable packet info

[Meethatguy]

QUOTE(armyof1ne @ Nov 9 2009, 02:17 AM)

I theorized this before i had proof... Its retarded to save information on nands because space is limited... Especially earlier generations... They wouldnt do a half ass job with this...  The standard size nands and ram(Non-volatile and Volatile) Hence why they wouldnt use those...  If that data is stored on the HDD All it would require would be a broadcast inquiry to all xbox 360's connected to live... it isnt that inconceivable.  Im sure microsoft(most being the dumbarses they are) didnt think that through much like the RROD and the warping of the board from expansion and contraction... I mean honestly... if they had people so smart working for them, you would think they could add in the equation of hot and cold in their system and the effects of those variables.... This is the type of company your dealing with dude... Plus, they could really give a damn about your other consoles because guess what.. one was already banned, Why not any others your stupid enough to put that HDD on...  If ever you were to move it... clear all cache and reformat(But i doubt that information is on the standard partition, Once i get a banned console's hdd, i can break down literally everything and figure everything hopefully) But seriously... like i said, your dealing with microsoft here... they arent known for being super intelligent... This is just another blunder some dumbarse coder didnt see or purposely did
If i was microsoft it would be encrypted... im not 100% sure if its fully encrypted... Once i get it in and do some testing, i will be able to capture all packets up to the time of being banned and review them over time... This will be a lengthy process if algorithm is intense, but since i can remember it being done before with Halo3 hacks... Im sure i can get ahold of some people with more reputable packet info

Listen.. your 1st comment at the beginging sounded very good.  But then you added the harddrive thing and it shos your full of poo.
The harddrive DOES NOT STORE BAN INFO. the info gets corrupted because the console it is attached to is blacklisted.  Your friends are full of it too.  You are the only person saying this happened.  Were the other boxes modded.?

It doesnt really matter,   the xboxes cannot be banneds because you switched around the harddrive and even less belivable you know 15 people it happened to, yet it happened to nooen else.
People like you are what is making this so hard to figure out.

The live logs have changed.  Extra disc checks have been added and C4eva is now in my opinion full of all kinds of poo if he says nothing new was added.  A blind, def mute can see there are extra checks.

[signal-to-noise-ratio]

QUOTE(Meethatguy @ Nov 9 2009, 10:40 AM)

Listen.. your 1st comment at the beginging sounded very good.  But then you added the harddrive thing and it shos your full of poo.
The harddrive DOES NOT STORE BAN INFO. the info gets corrupted because the console it is attached to is blacklisted.  Your friends are full of it too.  You are the only person saying this happened.  Were the other boxes modded.?

It doesnt really matter,   the xboxes cannot be banneds because you switched around the harddrive and even less belivable you know 15 people it happened to, yet it happened to nooen else.
People like you are what is making this so hard to figure out.

The live logs have changed.  Extra disc checks have been added and C4eva is now in my opinion full of all kinds of poo if he says nothing new was added.  A blind, def mute can see there are extra checks.

If a hard drive has a dashboard update on it. It carries a console ban list if your console is on that list it will be banned when it uses that hard drive.

[armyof1ne]

QUOTE(Meethatguy @ Nov 9 2009, 08:40 AM)

Listen.. your 1st comment at the beginging sounded very good.  But then you added the harddrive thing and it shos your full of poo.
The harddrive DOES NOT STORE BAN INFO. the info gets corrupted because the console it is attached to is blacklisted.  Your friends are full of it too.  You are the only person saying this happened.  Were the other boxes modded.?

It doesnt really matter,   the xboxes cannot be banneds because you switched around the harddrive and even less belivable you know 15 people it happened to, yet it happened to nooen else.
People like you are what is making this so hard to figure out.

The live logs have changed.  Extra disc checks have been added and C4eva is now in my opinion full of all kinds of poo if he says nothing new was added.  A blind, def mute can see there are extra checks.

Dont be mud slingin now...  At this point its only deducted that it does... The  system resources doesnt have the neccessary space to store a background program running to log this stuff... C4eva was right when he said nothing new was added.... It was added a long time ago, They wouldnt have the neccessary bandwidth capacity to have all that infomration pounding the servers... Thats alot less bandwidth... is was gather over time im sure...  Is it really inconceivable for you to grasp they are upgrading xbox's for a reason?  They soon will be storing this info on the NAND's onboard non-volatile memory...  The old school's couldnt handle that, This is why it is most likely on the hard drive.

[Evi1d33d]

The disc info could still be stored on the NAND since it shouldn't be very large at all. If all it looks at are the PFI, SS, DMI numbers then it should be about 1KB per game (just like the ABGX stealth files). It can just store your last 20 games and it'll just take 20-50KB.

QUOTE(Zomah @ Nov 6 2009, 07:27 PM)

31-10-2009
Challenge/Response 18 times
PFI 5 times
DVD Structure/SS 4 times
DMI 4 times
Capacity 7 times
Inquiry 5 times

06-17-2009
Challenge/Response 12 times
PFI 9 times
DVD Structure/SS 2 times
DMI 2 times
Capacity 3 times
Inquiry 1 times
Why is nobody noticing this?

What date format is that in, MMDDYYYY or DDMMYYY?

Also how did you obtain those logs?

This post has been edited by Evi1d33d: Nov 9 2009, 09:51 PM

[smakusdod2]

QUOTE(Reaper527 @ Nov 8 2009, 06:49 PM)

nice theory, but its not right.  and no one has been banned immediately after flashing the drive without putting a back up in.

Actually YOU are wrong.  There are 2 confirmed cases that I've seen personally of freshly modded boxes (with CK3) ONLY playing originals, both were banned almost immediately.  NO BACKUPS EVER TOUCHED THE DRIVE.

[RMF]

QUOTE(Evi1d33d @ Nov 9 2009, 09:46 PM)

The disc info could still be stored on the NAND since it shouldn't be very large at all. If all it looks at are the PFI, SS, DMI numbers then it should be about 1KB per game (just like the ABGX stealth files). It can just store your last 20 games and it'll just take 20-50KB.
What date format is that in, MMDDYYYY or DDMMYYY?

Also how did you obtain those logs?

Isn't the date format obvious from the actual dates themselves? Last time I checked, there weren't 31 months in a year, so I'm guessing that the date format is DD/MM/YYYY for the first one and MM/DD/YYYY for the second log.

This post has been edited by RMF: Nov 9 2009, 10:38 PM

[Evi1d33d]

QUOTE(RMF @ Nov 9 2009, 10:35 PM)

Isn't the date format obvious from the actual dates themselves? Last time I checked, there weren't 31 months in a year, so I'm guessing that the date format is DD/MM/YYYY for the first one and MM/DD/YYYY for the second log.

So the second log was taken on the month of 17?

[RMF]

QUOTE(Evi1d33d @ Nov 9 2009, 10:38 PM)

So the second log was taken on the month of 17?

This isn't all that hard to work out.

[bigdarren]

QUOTE(Meethatguy @ Nov 9 2009, 10:40 AM)

The live logs have changed.  Extra disc checks have been added and C4eva is now in my opinion full of all kinds of poo if he says nothing new was added.  A blind, def mute can see there are extra checks.

I may be wrong, but I don't think c4eva ever said nothing's changed..I believe he said the firmware is undetectable and the Live Logs look good...Maybe I missed somewhere where he said "nothing's changed" but I have not seen that...Last I heard he was testing a couple consoles still looking for the difference so he can update firmware..

Disc challanges don't seem to make sense as the cause...plenty of folks have reported being banned while playing a retail version. Most say that they'd played backups in the past, but some report they've not played a backup..This of course does not make sense to me as the 1st thing you'd do after flashing is check your work by seeing if you can play a cloned game...

Anyway, does it really matter how many challenges, PFI, SS checks (etc, etc)?? If you have the right answer for the challenges 18x, isnt it likely or possible that you have the right answer when it's now checking 12x?

[Zomah]

Seems like i was right with the logs.  

[Vortech]

QUOTE(knodi @ Nov 8 2009, 10:02 PM)

Your friend should sue then. I wish my unmodified 360 was banned cus of HDD swap. I would file a class action law suit.

X2

Myself and 5 personal friends have all put banned console HDD's into new unmodified, unbanned consoles and all have been online for 3 days without issue.

[BanditRW]

QUOTE(bigdarren @ Nov 9 2009, 05:23 PM)

I may be wrong, but I don't think c4eva ever said nothing's changed..I believe he said the firmware is undetectable and the Live Logs look good...Maybe I missed somewhere where he said "nothing's changed" but I have not seen that...Last I heard he was testing a couple consoles still looking for the difference so he can update firmware..

Disc challanges don't seem to make sense as the cause...plenty of folks have reported being banned while playing a retail version. Most say that they'd played backups in the past, but some report they've not played a backup..This of course does not make sense to me as the 1st thing you'd do after flashing is check your work by seeing if you can play a cloned game...

Anyway, does it really matter how many challenges, PFI, SS checks (etc, etc)?? If you have the right answer for the challenges 18x, isnt it likely or possible that you have the right answer when it's now checking 12x?

So far the only thing that seems to make sense with all the theories being bandied about is that MS has indeed found a way to make the hacked firmware reveal itself thru extra security checks.We all know MS has had the hacked firmware and have been trying to find some way to detect it and it seems they may have found a weekness/bug in the firmware that after so many checks it returns an invalid/incorrect response to the challenges that a stock firmware doesn't do.Sort of like asking a criminal if he broke the law 10,000 times,eventually he's going to crack.

[signal-to-noise-ratio]

QUOTE(blizzard122189 @ Nov 6 2009, 03:50 PM)

This and other info coming in now basically proves that AP2.5 has been turned on, as well as some form of Firmware CRC check. The Firmware check appears to only work in newer drives, so it is probably something added later. The AP2.5 works in the majority of drives, but is still a disc check so not 100%.

There are tons of reports of people flashing a drive and getting banned the first time they turn it on after.

If this is AP2.5 hate to see AP3.0.

QUOTE(Evi1d33d @ Nov 9 2009, 03:46 PM)

The disc info could still be stored on the NAND since it shouldn't be very large at all. If all it looks at are the PFI, SS, DMI numbers then it should be about 1KB per game (just like the ABGX stealth files). It can just store your last 20 games and it'll just take 20-50KB.
What date format is that in, MMDDYYYY or DDMMYYY?

Also how did you obtain those logs?

http://www.xbox-scen...uluBaVkSRMq.php

link to logs in news story

[spineshank]

My roommate is still on Live and hes running 1.4 on a Benq. He plays Forza 3 (legit) non stop every day on Live. So i dont think its the firmware thats doing it.