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[scuba156]

QUOTE(D3m0n1k @ Jul 3 2009, 07:56 AM)

EVERYONE knows ads on paid services and IN GAME is not cool.
There is no reason to disagree.
Two different categories of service.
Go rent a movie, or go buy a dvd...better yet, use your cable to pay for an ON DEMAND PAY PER VIEW title.
Now tell me you want ads and commercials in the title you paid for.
AND YES the whole I PAY SO I SHOULDN'T GET ADS hold alot of weight when there are multiple tiers of service.  If there was ONLY ONE tier as in XBOX Live...period, then ads would not be that much of an issue, but when you have silver, gold, etc, then yeah, it matters.  Paying customers should not see ads for crap that does not involve gaming.  
And no one should see ads IN THE GAMES THEMSELVES.

Ads in-game is up to the developer, not Microsoft. That ad would appear whether your online, offline, on a PS3 or on a Wii. Developers are now starting to include ads in games to make up the cost of development as its getting rather expensive, it costs alot more than it use to. They have included ads for years.

I dont see why them including silverlight ads is such a big issue, Xbox LIVE has ads currently, and there not stating that there will be more ad space. by making the ads run using silverlight, they will be more 'intergrated' in the system which would slighty improve the performance of the dashboard.

I can, however, understand the issue of having ads on a paid service, but its not like there the only paid service in the world to include ads (you just might have something like ad-block installed blocking out ads on any paid service you may use in a web browser). The ads are also non-intrusive, and arn't stopping you from doing anything. My Xbox Live only has Xbox related ads, so i dont notice it as much.

Ads in Paid TV is a bit different, as all the ads ive ever seen are just advertising shows on there network so there not making any revenue off those ads, it just allows them to space out the shows that are aired so they can take off roughly 1 show per day and save the expense from that one show. Sometimes i like ads, it gives me a chance to get up off the couch, go to the toilet, get a drink or something to eat.

[johnnyrico]

When cable TV was a new thing, the benefits were better signal and channels with NO ADS.
The idea was the channels got their money from the cable distributors.
Now look, you pay each month for cable and in return you get 5 minutes of ads followed by 5 minutes of what you wanted to watch.

Same applies to XBL, gold members pay for their service, they shouldn't get adverts rammed down their throats.
Now MS is trying to pull the same sorry crap the cable channels did!


It's pathetic how Major Nelson is constantly trying to weasel his way out of the arguments.

[funksoulbrother]

QUOTE(D3m0n1k @ Jul 2 2009, 10:56 PM)

Once again...PSN is free and has NO ads that intrude.
Free service....get it?  You cannot have it ALL with a free service.
BUT THE FACT IS IT IS FREE OF CHARGE AND STILL AD FREE.

Now go to Live...
PAID SERVICE...and now more ads?
LAME!

OMG!! Ads are going to ruin the entire 360 experience!!!111!!!

I would rather have the 360 with ads on the dash than have a service like PSN, free or not. That's the point I was making. It's all very well saying "but PSN is free and doesn't have ads", but it's crap in comparison to Live and I spend 99% of my time playing games and maybe 1% of my time looking at the dashboard, so again, I say that people are blowing this WAY out of proportion and speculating about pop up ads (lol) and all kinds of stuff that probably isn't going to happen. If people really think ads will pop up while you're playing a game, they need to tighten up the chin strap on their tin foil hat.

As for ads in games, when you're driving around in your car, do you see ads on billboards and stuff? Do you see ads up on the walls in airports and train stations? Advertising hoards at sports grounds? If anything, the ads make games more realistic and why you're moaning about this now I don't know, as in game ads is far from a new thing, unless you're another one that thinks a "SHOP AT WALMART!" pop up ad is going to appear half way through a game of Nazi Zombies on COD:WAW.

[D3m0n1k]

QUOTE(funksoulbrother @ Jul 3 2009, 04:26 PM)

unless you're another one that thinks a "SHOP AT WALMART!" pop up ad is going to appear half way through a game of Nazi Zombies on COD:WAW.

Once again....and again....
Play any of the new EA sports games.
The ads DO POP UP IN GAME.
Now maybe you don't see them or you don't care but I for one don't want a gamefly ad or an ad for another EA title POPPING UP on screen while I am playing the game.
That is what i am saying.

Also, ads on the dashboard are crap as well.
I did not pay $400 for a commercial machine.
Dashboard, in game, or other.
$400 console, $60 per game, $50 per year Live, and I still get ads?
Add it up.  It is stupid and it is just another way for Microsoft to get money from the advertisers as well as the customers.

And finally, all the PSN bashers need to wake up.
Either you have never used the service or you honestly think the ability to send someone you are playing with a voice message spouting sexual insults and racial slurs a bonus.  I am really tired of little fanboys jumping on a bandwagon because it is the one they happen to own and use or it is the only one they have been told is cool.
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE between the two are the voice and invites.
PSN has a marketplace, demos, videos, DLC, etc.
Also, the PSN is going to get a major overhaul this summer or fall adding all that LIVE stlye crap anyway.

Facts are facts.

[funksoulbrother]

QUOTE(D3m0n1k @ Jul 3 2009, 05:54 PM)

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE between the two are the voice and invites.

Let's see. Some of the things Xbox Live has that PSN does not: -

Cross-game voice chat
Voice messaging
A proper invites/join system that works across all games
An up to 8 player party mode
5 voice chat channels, switchable at any time - the game, the party, and 3 private voice slots
Demos for every single downloadable game, instead of demos for about 1 in 5 like on PSN
10 free categorised game video channels
Movie and TV show rentals with HD options (I'm in the UK, and PSN has no movie rentals store here)
The ability to compare games with a friend and not just trophies
Leaderboards built into the dashboard (this is the latest Live feature that Sony are trying to copy)
Xbox Live shows you what game a person is playing and exactly what they are doing in that game
You can prefer or ignore a player which affects matchmaking globally
You can report abusive players direct through the console
You can create dynamically updated gamercards on sites like MyGamerCard.net (Sony are also trying to copy this)
You can click on a friend's profile and view their friends
You can click on a gamertag on a leaderboard and view the user's full profile
In the UK, there's over 210 downloadable games for Live and about 70 for PSN
Xbox Live always gets games, demos and content first and it's usually cheaper than PSN

That's just some of it. There's other bits and pieces, but of course as someone who has extensively used both, I'm sure you're aware of all of this.

QUOTE

Also, the PSN is going to get a major overhaul this summer or fall adding all that LIVE stlye crap anyway.

Source? Oh yeah, you don't have one. Here's some of the things that are confirmed for Xbox Live this summer: -

Last.fm integration, including being able to listen to tunes with friends and people in your party
Facebook integration, including being able to post screenshots from supported games straight to your Facebook page from within the game
Twitter integration
Full 1080 instant streaming movie rentals
Sky TV through the 360
Zune Video Marketplace
A store for avatar clothing and accessories
An overhaul of the Live service itself, with a new dashboard update coming at the end of summer

You're right about facts being facts. You're just not very good at identifying what a fact actually is. The typical response to the list I posted would be for you to list each thing along with "that's useless" or "I don't care about that", but that's just lame so I'll pre-empt you in doing that now to save you the bother. You were obviously quite wrong, so there's no reason for you to argue the point.

[funksoulbrother]

QUOTE(D3m0n1k @ Jul 3 2009, 05:54 PM)

Once again....and again....
Play any of the new EA sports games.
The ads DO POP UP IN GAME.
Now maybe you don't see them or you don't care but I for one don't want a gamefly ad or an ad for another EA title POPPING UP on screen while I am playing the game.
That is what i am saying.

BTW, what does this have to do with the article that the thread is about? Games have had ads in them for ages and it's not like the ads in EA games only affect the Xbox 360 version, so you're just waffling here. The ads in question will appear on the dashboard, and there are already ads there now - ads have featured in NXE since it launched. If you want to blame someone about the ads in games, blame the developer of that particular game.

[Emerica]

Comon guys.

Yes M$ is a greedy bunch, after I started seeing Car ads on my dashboard I called and complained. Theres no reason paying customers should be subjected to ads.

Heres your solution, load up wireshark and find out what sub domain MS is feeding thier ad's through.
Ad a rule in your router to block that subdomain and guess what, no more ads.
You can also spoof them and put your own ads in.


Now I'll just wait to see what kind of exploits thier 360 port has

[D3m0n1k]

It all goes together.
My last reply was just based on one person's information posted earlier on.
You should really read everything before posting.

And furthermore:
Waffling - 1.  To utilize extraordinary means to gain something of value by defeating a poorly designed system run by a badly managed entity
               2.  unable to make up one's mind; playing the safe middle ground due to one's own lack of conviction or sense of morality.
               3.  Switching from one side of an argument to the other repeatedly.


I have been on the same side of my argument since the beginning.
Please don't use words that you don't know the meaning to in an attempt to make a point already made by someone else.

[D3m0n1k]

QUOTE

You're right about facts being facts. You're just not very good at identifying what a fact actually is. The typical response to the list I posted would be for you to list each thing along with "that's useless" or "I don't care about that", but that's just lame so I'll pre-empt you in doing that now to save you the bother. You were obviously quite wrong, so there's no reason for you to argue the point.

Actually your lists would not garner a "I don't care" or 'Useless" rebuttal
I never said Live was not currently more feature rich, I said not everyone needs all the features or uses all of them all the time.
I also said more ads are not needed.
I stand by that opinion.

I will say, however, that most of your list contains things I mentioned in the voice and invite statement, other than the fact you can report players and prefer/avoid them.
But that feature IS, in fact, useless for the most part as it is abused on a regular basis.  In theory it was a great idea, but in use, it fails as all it takes is someone to beat you at a game, or do something to piss you off in left 4 dead and you report them and complain.  Unwarranted complaints are rampant.  

However, I will say that for the person who said I have no source about the PS3 update....well, google it.
What?  All those pages are what?
Oh, sources.
Version 3.0 is said to be the one with all the new stuff in it.

Finally, my last words in this thread are this;
Some support PS3, some support 360.
But this fanboy rage people have about their precious consoles is really out of hand now.
Can't we all agree they are both good systems and they both stomp the Wii?

[funksoulbrother]

QUOTE(D3m0n1k @ Jul 3 2009, 09:14 PM)

I never said Live was not currently more feature rich

What you actually said was: -

QUOTE

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE between the two are the voice and invites.

But those aren't the only differences, as I clearly showed.

QUOTE

And furthermore:
Waffling

LOL. You got your definitions from UrbanDictionary.com, where anyone can submit a definition of a word. Is that your idea of a credible source?

http://www.merriam-w...ionary/waffling ("to talk or write foolishly")

QUOTE

But that feature IS, in fact, useless for the most part as it is abused on a regular basis.

And yet, by taking your advice and Googling for PS3 firmware 3.0, look what I find: -

QUOTE

The before-rumoured reputation system will be included. We were told that, “A reputation system in which users will be able to evaluate each other will be provided for… game applications.

“There will be a new API available to so the user can… allow users and also obtain users’ reputation.”

A “grief reporting system” will be included in the update, allowing gamers to take screens of offensive players and submit them to Sony. Apparently this is going to be similar to the LBP system, and is likely to include a text input.

http://www.vg247.com...ple-audio-more/

The only other new features that are mentioned are background downloading of game updates - something the 360 simply doesn't need as the updates aren't whopping great 500MB chunks like they often are on PSN, and being able to output audio through optical and HDMI simultaneously. I can't find any solid source that claims PSN will get an update that adds "all that LIVE style crap", as you claimed. Also, note the response from Sony at the bottom of the article: -

QUOTE

Those rumors are completely untrue, nothing has been announced or confirmed for upcoming PlayStation firmware, and this is just wild speculation.

So basically, you have absolutely zero credible sources that you can offer up.

Again, get your facts straight before you post, then it'll save you having to backtrack and squirm your way out of looking a bit silly! You contradicted yourself, used Urban Dictionary as a source, and made a claim that has been completely denied by Sony, so you're not doing too well so far.

[scuba156]

QUOTE(D3m0n1k @ Jul 3 2009, 10:18 PM)

Wrong.
When you play a game...Microsoft (or the console, actually) sends you friend updates, message updates, etc, correct?
That is not the game developer, but Microsoft's OS running their features, right?
Now the new Silverlight ads are the same thing.
Little pop-ins like the friend updates with ads on them.
POP UP WINDOWS!

Second, even if the ads in some games like Tiger Woods 09, 2010, and Burnout Revenge ARE in fact the game developer's fault, Microsoft should own up and say, NO MORE IN GAME ADS POPPING IN.  THEY OWN THE CONSOLE, not EA, or whoever it is making the crap ad-ridden games.  I am NOT speaking about product placement like a Pepsi sign, or a Chevy car, or a Burger King on the road....I mean pop up ads, scrolling commercials, etc...

Who ever said it was a 'pop up'? It wasnt the same thing as a 'friend online' pop up message, and either will the silver light ads. where did you pull this one from? the ads 'in game' have all been bulit into the game, not transmitted over LIVE. they appear on any version of the game that is available. The ads that wil now be using silverlight will be directly in the dashboard. Wow

[xc1234]

in the end MS makes more money and we get screwed. welcome to corporations and their mentalities.  point blank

[sabbath_dude]

I switched on my console today and the first thing I was greeted with was an ad for Shockwaves hair products. Slap bang in the center of my screen on the Spotlight channel.

I can't say I like the direction the 360 is headed. It seems a lot of people are happy to pay a subscription fee and at the same time allow Microsoft to get away with plastering junk adverts all over their consoles dashboard/games. It baffles me that some people don't have a problem with it. Whether the ads bother you or not the principle of the thing should.

[funksoulbrother]

QUOTE(sabbath_dude @ Jul 4 2009, 03:01 PM)

It seems a lot of people are happy to pay a subscription fee and at the same time allow Microsoft to get away with plastering junk adverts all over their consoles dashboard/games. It baffles me that some people don't have a problem with it.

It baffles me why people exaggerate so much. There is 1 Shockwave sponsored competition in the Spotlight section where you have the chance to win 1 of 100 prizes by playing Guitar Hero. Is that them "plastering junk adverts all over the console"? Nah, not at all. I thought we'd already established that many games have adverts in them (and have done for a long time now), and that's to do with the developer rather than Microsoft and it doesn't just affect the Xbox 360.

BTW, for those that think MS are "just being greedy", can someone post up the total profit that they have made from their endeavours into gaming - the total profit made from Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox Live and so on. Let's see just how greedy they are, because obviously they must have made billions from these systems. Forbes reported that they lost over 4 billion on the original Xbox, so that must mean those greedy bastards have made an absolute fortune on the 360, right guys??!! I can't wait to see the figures. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[sabbath_dude]

QUOTE(funksoulbrother @ Jul 4 2009, 07:28 PM)

It baffles me why people exaggerate so much. There is 1 Shockwave sponsored competition in the Spotlight section where you have the chance to win 1 of 100 prizes by playing Guitar Hero. Is that them "plastering junk adverts all over the console"? Nah, not at all. I thought we'd already established that many games have adverts in them (and have done for a long time now), and that's to do with the developer rather than Microsoft and it doesn't just affect the Xbox 360.

One advert greeting me as soon as I switch on my games console is one advert too many IMO. As a paying Live subscriber I really don't want to see any of that guff on my screen ever. I don't care how unobtrusive anyone else thinks it is. You can dress it up any way you like by saying it's just a sponsorship deal, game related competition etc etc but that's still advertising. Those Spotlight spaces can be sold to any company Microsoft chooses so this week it's hair care products (which is bad enough) but next week it might be the latest 2 for 1 offer at your local Tescos etc etc. And with these new Silverlight ads coming into play it's only going to get worse.

QUOTE(funksoulbrother @ Jul 4 2009, 07:28 PM)

BTW, for those that think MS are "just being greedy", can someone post up the total profit that they have made from their endeavours into gaming - the total profit made from Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox Live and so on. Let's see just how greedy they are, because obviously they must have made billions from these systems. Forbes reported that they lost over 4 billion on the original Xbox, so that must mean those greedy bastards have made an absolute fortune on the 360, right guys??!! I can't wait to see the figures.

http://www.dailytech...rticle11599.htm
That was from Q3 2008 and we all know the 360 has only grown in popularity and held excellent sales figures since. The 360 hardware has been making Microsoft a profit for some time now. And when you factor in all the peripherals like controllers, mics, remotes etc etc along with Live subscriptions, DLC sales and the 360's excellent attachment rate for games then you know they've got to be raking it in. Don't forget to add the advertising revenue from the dashboard to the list. Are you seriously trying to suggest a big corporation like Microsoft aren't greedy?.