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[SnoopDop]

I downloaded the torrent of this demo and burned it to a DVD-R and played it while signed off live.
Fortunetly the Xbox 360 DVD drive doesn't have write capability so it can't corrupt my demo  

[AcidPenguiN]

anyone who is going "olololol evil microsoft is breaking into my harddrive and destroying my bits" is blowing this way out of proportion, just like the article which is also trying to blow things out of proportion just for more publicity.

I bet none of you give a rats ass or a second thought about having to run the mandatory updates when you put a game in the drive, but now that the shoe is on the other foot its all "ILLEGAL STEALIN' MAH MEGABITZ!!!!!!!!!"

This situation is NO DIFFERENT than a mandatory game update or the NXE update that was forced on us. Hell, if you have a gold xbox live account you've even signed away your right to complain about it. I bet with 99% certainty that you agreed to this happening when you didn't read the EULA but checked the "I read the EULA and agree" box anyway.

[mik30]

QUOTE(AcidPenguiN @ Dec 16 2008, 01:06 AM)

This situation is NO DIFFERENT than a mandatory game update or the NXE update that was forced on us. Hell, if you have a gold xbox live account you've even signed away your right to complain about it. I bet with 99% certainty that you agreed to this happening when you didn't read the EULA but checked the "I read the EULA and agree" box anyway.

Well, you exactly named the problem MS will have
in a court trial: "the NXE update that was forced on us".

A forced change in conditions of a treaty is not negotiated.
Especially Gold-Members would have paid money
without MS giving the service in return if the customer would
deny the change. That is a forced one-sided discrimination
of MS´s contractual partners. That is frankly spoken a
breach of contract, nothing else.

MS´s Terms Of Service are for sure illegal in a lot of it´s conditions.
In Europe the local MS subsidiaries avoid such court trials from the beginning
by not handling the LIVE service themself. The LIVE service in EMEA
is actually handled by an independet firm in Luxemburg or Ireland.
MS changed the localization of that firm sometime.

Anyway, any customer in (let´s say) Germany would still have huge
problems to go to court against MS because one would have to hire
a foreign lawyer to sue that special MS firm in a foreign country under
(maybe) foreign law. That is so much effort that almost any user
steps back from such actions.

MS knows that. That´s exactly one reason to organize the LIVE
business in Europe in that way. It would be much easier for the
customers to get their rights if MS´s local MS subsidiary would
handle the LIVE business. But that is intenionally not the case.


This post has been edited by mik30: Today, 02:36 AM

[Devedander]

QUOTE(mik30 @ Dec 15 2008, 05:08 AM)

No, MS has no right at all to do so.
To be precisely MS has NO right to alter
ones data on the XBOX without permission.
If one acts (maybe) wrong (the customer),
the other (MS) is not justified in doing wrong
as well.

I mentioned when the new TOS was checked out for the NXE where it said MS can install software for the purpose of anti piracy and how it was essentially a Patriot act for the 360...  MS can now do anything they deem fit to fight piracy (and yes you can pirate a free demo, just like you can steal a free product ie: free milk for seniors, if you take it but are not a senior you are stealing - free product for users in Japan, if you are not in Japan...).

I don't like it one bit, regardless of whether MS feels that this is covered by the TOS or not, I get the bad feeling that we are going to see more and more unpleasantries down the road.

BTW Chancer, I don't agree... MS may always check what's legal, but that doesn't mean what they do is legal... Wasn't it in the UK that MS got stuck with their big anti trust judgement?

[dokworm]

QUOTE(Chancer @ Dec 15 2008, 05:24 PM)

^^ Do you honestly think MS do something without checking and/or knowing the legalities. thanks for the court room verdict but MS will be well within it's rights.
Same old thing again. People thinking they are entitled to something just because someone else has it. It's a symptom of modern society.
Wait for the game. We have to wait till last for everything in Europe.

It is illegal in Australia and most European countries to change data on a users computer without notifying them of it. I do not know if this is the case in the US.

BTW, I didn't know you guys read our PMs!

[ssj4android]

Is there anything in the usage restrictions that prohibits playing the demo outside of Japan? What if someone downloads it perfectly legally in Japan then takes their 360 somewhere else (or maybe connects it to a VPN running somewhere else)?
Can you use a US hard drive on a Japanese 360?

[hamwbone]

the demo IS not your property. it doesnt belong to you in ant shape form or manner. get over it you whining ninnies.... they can do what ever the hell they want to.

 

[Chancer]

QUOTE

I don't like it one bit, regardless of whether MS feels that this is covered by the TOS or not, I get the bad feeling that we are going to see more and more unpleasantries down the road.

Not if you play it by the book.
If you take and use something that you are not supposed to be using then...what do you expect.
How would you all feel if say Capcom refused to license the game on the 360  in the US and region locked other area copies of the game because MS broke an agreement not to demo the game in the US at present?
It won't happen and is an extreme example but that is one road open.

QUOTE

BTW, I didn't know you guys read our PMs!

 If someone thinks passing on copyright stuff via Pm or trading in pirate games in the BST is safe via PM, then think again.

[chinchilladesign]

as far as m$ not being allowed to update stuff without permission, im afraid you are all very misled.

you dont actually own your xbox. M$ own it, and always will. it is still their property.
you simply "rent", which isnt the exact term, but it is the closest i can think of.

i dont agree with this but, i was informed last year that even though i have bought and paid for the console it will never be my property.

stupid or what!

i dl the demo and burnt to cd, worked fine online but now i have to sign out, no big problem really. but like one guy said above, it is slow and clunky! i like it though!


does anyone know if there are any other demos available this way?

[Chancer]

QUOTE(chinchilladesign @ Dec 22 2008, 01:47 PM)

as far as m$ not being allowed to update stuff without permission, im afraid you are all very misled.

you dont actually own your xbox. M$ own it, and always will. it is still their property.
you simply "rent", which isnt the exact term, but it is the closest i can think of.

i dont agree with this but, i was informed last year that even though i have bought and paid for the console it will never be my property.

 You are confusing software rights with hardware ownership.
Of course you own the console. You can take it into the road and run it over with a 30 ton truck and it's your loss.
MS tampering with copyright software is the part you don't own...but the hardware.. you certainly do own.