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[HotKnife420]

QUOTE(pholly @ Nov 12 2008, 03:55 PM)

I do look down on pirates, I buy my music, movies and games. If you can't afford the hobby try collecting stamps or something. I buy what I want, if you don't then I'm better than you. And the link to the free game music is a site that has music for games that isn't available for purchase it's not a bunch of ripped cds.
Well, if you're not modding to play pirated games then you wouldn't be using a custom firmware to begin with. It's only for piracy, very few actually use it for true backups. As for why I'm here it's simple this is a good site for xbox news, this site isn't for piracy even though that's the reason there are so many users here.

1) Having more money for a hobby than the next man doesn't magically make you better. You may very well suck at every game you play, or may buy games that everyone and their momma considers to be the most horrible atrocity since Carmegeddon, so that's neither here nor there.

2) You say modding firmware is *only* for piracy, but in the same sentence you say there are people who are genuinely honest and only play backups of their own games. Which is it?

 Lastly, the bans aren't really negotiating whether or not you're playing with people you want to; they simply ban those who are violating the ToS (as backups are not allowed by it). This does nothing towards diminishing the large population of cheaters & racists, who argue that because they paid $60 for whatever game and paid their XBL dues, that they have the right to glitch games to give them an unfair advantage. They also argue that those same "fees" give them the right to call me every racial slur they can think of, because it's "part of the game" to them.

 Does this mean the bans are unjust? No. You should've disputed the ToS before agreeing to them if you had a problem with it. All I'm saying is that I believe their concentrating efforts on piracy at the wrong time (though financially, it's probably the best time), as XBL is still rampant with "game terrorists".

 It's unfortunate that with all the money I've spent on my gold membership and MS points I've purchased, that they'd rather kick off Joe Cheapskate than Joe Racist-Asshole. Joe Racist-Asshole, however, pays a much larger percentage of the light bill than Joe Cheapskate does, however, and in  capitalism's  eyes, is the lesser of two evils (while in the average gamer's eye, the positions should be slightly juxtaposed).

[Fantmx]

QUOTE(x YNWA x @ Nov 12 2008, 09:08 PM)

Its not a case of not being able to afford the games, most people can. I in fact used to spend around £4000 a year on games. I got sick of paying £40 for a game only for it to turn out crap or for it to last something pathetic like 6 hours.  

I firmly believe if that all games were released as trial versions then there would be no piracy at all. People would play the trial version and if they liked it they would purchase an activation code for the rest of the game, simple concept. The publishers are just too lazy and milk it for crappy games so its their own fault that people download games.  All this crap about stay off xbox live if you use copied games, I really do not know why people say that. Ive been banned once in 2 and a half years and used games online each time before release date too.

So you're saying there is no piracy of computer applications that offer trials?  Get real.  If you are curious, rent the game.

[BoNg420]

QUOTE(nha @ Nov 12 2008, 06:05 AM)

"keep gameplay safe and secure for our community" lol that's the funniest line ever!

I'm shocked that MS have done this, when they're in a race against the wii and ps3 to be the top games console, blocking a percentage no matter how small has got to harm their profits.. its not like the old xbox, these banned guys are still paying for live etc so money is being lost.

Then people go out buy more consoles, then their consoles sold goes up.

[davegormanrocks]

I try my best to stay out of these arguements, but I've got to join in here....

Firstly my view is if you've modded your console and you got banned, it's the choice you made and life. There's nothing wrong in Microsoft doing that according to the terms and conditions.

BUT

Piracy is not and will never be stealing, theft, a crime or anything like that and it's annoying to see people use such powerful words.

Piracy is a civil offense and to use 'stealing' to describe it is merely a PR stunt. Although I'll agree it's morally wrong.

I've attempted to think of an anology which is fitting...

You're walking home from the store where you just paid £44 for your shiny new game. I stop you in the street, take the game and run anyway, you never see it again, you get home probably very annoyed and you never get to play it. This is STEALING the game.

You're walking home from the store where you just paid £44 for your shiny new game. You visit me on your way home and I copy the game. You then continue your walk and then play the game at home all happy. YOU STILL HAVE THE GAME. This is an IP infringement, and piracy.


Further to this, what the industries like you to think is wrong... It's not as bad as taking it from a shop shelf. It's more like going into the shop with a note pad and drawing the game that you want, but you don't buy it... No one actually LOSES anything.

[swg1251]

well, even if this is just a small percentage, lucky me, i was one of them. banned. *&^%!!!

[Stealth187]

I checked last night and I'm not banned.

- hitachi drive with iXtreme 1.4, the only modded firmware that has ever been used on this box
- flash method involved powering up xbox (using its own power) without drive attached
- GTA4 and Halo 3 scene releases are the only backups that have been used, neither played online, but I have been connected to Live whilst playing single player

[FallenOne]

GTFO


 Now for My Own View On The Issue At Hand. I Bet You Anything Their Bluffing, And If Their Not. I Suggest We Find New Ways To Cover Our Tracks, And I Personally Think Someone With A Debug Console, Or A Moddified Kernal Should Debug, and Monitor The Events That Occur When You Install The NXE. See If There Is Any Activity On The Drive... Or mabey Even Take A Pre Bricked Drive And Test If You Get Banned With The Bricked Drive... The Possibility Of M$ Trying To Check Every Single FRMWRE On Every Single Console Is Unlikely, Unless They Have Found A Single Abnormality With Every Single One Of The 'Sploits That Have Been Used... Honestly... I Have A Feeling This Is Going To Be Another Wild Goose Chase For M$.

[Dragon Curve]

QUOTE(phunk @ Nov 12 2008, 04:02 PM)

I really dont see whay so many people are trying to justify piracy just because they think games are overpriced.  
Cars (and lets face it, most other consumer goods) are ridiculously overpriced - do these people see carjacking as ok? No, didn't think so.

The basic upshot is, MS want you to pay for the games that developers spent 2-3 years making. I dont think that's too much to ask, considering that is their revenue stream.

Pricing itself is another issue; I agree that £40-£50 for shovelware is a rip-off, but no one is holding a gun to your head to make you buy and/or play games. Its a choice you can make. Dont want to pay? Then dont play. Simple.

Now if like me (and many others), your 360 has chewed the shit out of your discs, then I can definately see a a valid point in being able to legally make backups and play them. The problem is, that allows all the moochers and freeloaders to play copies of games they have no intention of paying for. Unfortunately its a double-edged sword. If MS had the decency to replace discs that have been ruined by their shitty dvd drives, then the whole 'backup' issue becomes a moot point. All you'd have to do would be return the disc for a replacement, and problem solved!

The problem with that logic, is that you are getting something TANGIBLE when you buy a car.  When you buy a game, you're buying intellectual property, essentially.  It might cost them $1-2 for the DVD and its case, but you're essentially buying the data on that case.  I place more value on real, tangible things (houses, cars, TVs) than I do on paying for something I can't hold or see (i.e. the data on a DVD).

That, and a 5 year old car will retain SOME value, whereas a 5 year old game is near worthless.  I don't really want to pay $90 (that's in AUD) for the latest, greatest game when in a couple of years it's worth nothing.  Hence, it's not a tangible object.

Look at the music industry.  So long they sat on their high horse selling off mass-produced CDs at exhorbitant prices until they realised piracy was such a major issue, they needed to drop their prices and create something like iTunes (among others).

Microsoft can build a game, then cut as many copies of that game as they feel like.  A car manufacturer is literally building a product every time someone buys it (or at least, building it first, then selling it).  It's apples and oranges.

Don't want to pay?  People find other options.  I'm not a market analyst and I couldn't tell you if Microsoft would profit more by dropping the prices so more pirates could buy legit games, but having high prices DEFINITELY incents people to find other options.  Who can blame them?  Why not get something for free if you think it's way overpriced?  Are you saying that if someone came up with a way where you could get a brand new Ferrari for nothing, with relatively no risk to yourself, you wouldn't be a little bit interested?

[JBmtk]

I think Nillaz hit this one on the head. It is also true that xbox-scene is primarily a place for modding, but that does not imply that it is a haven for people to do things illegally...it is how you use the information given that will separate you from the rest.

Now can we please get back to actually discussing topics related to the new bans occurring as in who is getting banned, why, and when? I know this happened in the past and the number of responses and solutions were really great and helped out tremendously.

[icspwnz]

the only real thieves here are M$ .. . i've lost count of how many REAL ppl i've met who have had to purchase literally 6-7 xbox 360 systems due to the RROD.  If you or i had a business and were selling a defective product to millions of people, then i would expect that our heads would already be on a stake somewhere.  

and as for the analogy "you wouldn't like it if someone stole your car would you?" i would say; you can steal my car because it was only a backup copy.   sharing is caring.

[gsharpshooter]

QUOTE(Arakon @ Nov 12 2008, 08:23 AM)

how the hell would MS know you have done the fix? they don't come to your home and crack open your console to look.

well someone before said they installed a diffrent fan in their console and microsoft banned him because they some how found out about to bad modding isnt like the good ole dayz with xbox 1 that was awesome it made me get all these tingly feelings inside when i did mod my first xbox ahh those were the dayz  

[gsharpshooter]

QUOTE(icspwnz @ Nov 13 2008, 06:33 AM)

the only real thieves here are M$ .. . i've lost count of how many REAL ppl i've met who have had to purchase literally 6-7 xbox 360 systems due to the RROD.  If you or i had a business and were selling a defective product to millions of people, then i would expect that our heads would already be on a stake somewhere.  

and as for the analogy "you wouldn't like it if someone stole your car would you?" i would say; you can steal my car because it was only a backup copy.   sharing is caring.

to ur response of the analogy ....pFFAHAHAHAHAHAHA u can go ahead and steal my car LMAO ahh that made me crack up no really it did

QUOTE(Sarek @ Nov 13 2008, 06:39 AM)

Microsoft shouldn't be banning people from Live, they should be bricking your consoles, or suing you like the music industry has.

Those of you that try to justify your stealing games by saying you are "trying them out", or "can't afford them", or whatever other lame reasons just need to grow up.  

If you truly can't afford to buy games, then don't.  Find something else to do (how did you afford that $300-$400 console?)  Or maybe get a job... or work a couple of extra hours.  Or sell some old crap on Ebay.

Or trade some of your games instead of stealing :

GameTZ

GameTZ is a great site where you can trade games for FREE.  Just buy 1 or 2 games, and you can trade them for other games.  You can even trade older games for newer ones if you can find someone interested.

You have lots of other options besides stealing.

hmmm yep ur right ur the man WOOHOOO CHEEERS...NOT do u know how many rrods i went through with ms im sick of ms not fixing the problem now and still getting away with it so why shouldnt i get away with there games for the time and money they wasted on all the rrods i think its only fair  

[gsharpshooter]

QUOTE(rocarmy4life @ Nov 12 2008, 10:14 PM)

they make money from LIVE, consoles and game sales.
how will they make money from pirated games?
they cant...so, the modder already bought their console, and already paid for live...so MS got their cash.... they might get another $50 next year but they wont see another cent from people playing pirated games...smack em in the face by banning their console, make em spend another $200+ and another $50 and make maybe $250 OR hope that the modder pays another $50 next year... To make that $250, MS could only hope the modder plays on LIVE for 5 more years!! $250 / $50 = 5 years of LIVE subscriptions.  Dont be shocked that they have employees making 6 figures+ a year already weighing the pros and cons of banning modders.

or u can buy a ps3 and hope ms ends up failing miserably i have both consoles but the amount of rrods is unacceptable so u know what i need to start relying on another worthy console that will last instead of this scrap metal from hell

[rob4748]

QUOTE(gsharpshooter @ Nov 13 2008, 12:45 AM)

or u can buy a ps3 and hope ms ends up failing miserably i have both consoles but the amount of rrods is unacceptable so u know what i need to start relying on another worthy console that will last instead of this scrap metal from hell

thats not true cause i play the new 007 game and it was a nfo game and im not banned so try again!!!!!!!

[SleepyG]

QUOTE(Illrigger @ Nov 12 2008, 01:23 PM)

I disagree, and your logic does not hold up.

User "A" buys a game from store for $60, then sells it to reseller.  User "B" buys used copy.  Total money that developer sees?  Their share of $60/2 users.

User "B" *pirates* the same game.  Total money that developer sees?  ZERO.

Therefore, used games give the devs an infinite % more money than a pirated one does.

No sir, your logic does not hold up. I had to create an account to answer this post.

If User "A" purchases a game new from a game store, the developer sees the full amount of the purchase. User "A" then resells the game to the game store.

User "B" purchases that same game from the game store USED. The GAME STORE sees 100% of that profit. The developer does not see $60/2.

User "C" pirates the game. The developer sees nothing from the profits, just like User "B".

User "B" and User "C" both have the same effect on the developer. The only thing that User "B" is doing is supporting the game store so that the game store can continue specializing in game sales.

So overall, for every person that buys the game, there can be someone out there that pirates the game, as long as that pirate was planning on buying it used. Because if someone decides to pirate the game instead of buying it used, it has the same damn effect on the developer.