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[Champion]

wrong; did update of firmware 2.3 to 2.4 bevore I updated spring updated

[lpmattht8]

I modified my samsung with 5.2 firmware before the spring update, haven't played any backups since the spring update to stay safe, downloaded the halo 3 beta with a code bungie sent to me and have been playing it ever since and haven't been banned(yet    )


Just some info so you guys can pinpoint exactly who they are banning.

[mrtvgame]

Here are my details that can be used for data:

Not banned thus far.

+ Hitachi 54 or 59 flashed with 2.4 prior to the spring update.  Did not connect to Live at all prior to the update.

+ last time on live playing a backup was early April

+ have backed up only originals until recently with a  few older scene releases but not on Live

+ Never really played on Live much, back up or original

+ Used retail Crackdown to download and play Halo 3 Beta.  No issues.


Thoughts:

+ they have been collecting data prior to the spring update; did they implement something in the Fall update and have been waiting?

+ disc jitter may have been implemented on some games this past spring and can only be performed when communicating with live servers; thus data collected

+ Crackdown disc makes a hell of a lot of noise (sound like a saw cutting wood, zipping back and forth) when loading

+ C4E tipped off about disc jitter but it was already in effect and data collected

+ C4E and others already picked the security apart back in Jan/Feb and showed in a presentation the number of possibilities that could be used to determine backups/firmware.  They mostly covered it in their firmware updates but perhaps M$ jumped ahead and implemented those possibilities much sooner than anyone thought, thus firmware could not be adjusted in time

+ if they can see the firmware then everyone with a modified firmware would be toast; IMO it has to be something that has been implemented in the last 8-12 weeks and may have something big to do with Crackdown or just when on Live actually playing against others, measures were in place checking and finding the backup.

+ could they look at the disc information and anyone using scene releases would be an easy target as it would come up as the same information hundreds of times, whereas those renting/buying and then backing up have many different information when checking

+ if it was piracy they were concerned about, why not brick the console altogether?  Perhaps this current ban  is the only way they can and are limited

+ If protecting Live is so important, why not just not allow backups to be played online (in essence this is what they are doing but banning machines seems pointless)

Hope this helps and good luck to all involved.

[4real*leb]

I have a Samsung with 5.3 firmware, I have not been banned yet, but I have not connected to live yet either. I was on halo 3 beta all day, and did not recieve a ban. I woke up this morning and read about this banning scenario, and so I did what everybody else would do, disconnet the ethernet cable and refrain from using any of the live services. curretnly I am playing backups, offline, but have not tried connecting and will not until I recieve word from somebody with a new method to bypss the banning. I will, however use the live service after I reflash with the original firmware.  I mean hey, who can stop using the Halo 3 Beta?

Note: This is off topic but I need to know, do I need to read the hacked firmware from my 360 drive before placing the orginial, or do I just go ahead and flash, without reading the key from the hacked firmware.

[Albuyeh]

well my hitachi 59dj is banned but now i cannot play movies, originals, or backups. it just says "open tray" when anything is in

[Osirls]

Ok well i'm not banned.


Sammy drive with xtreme 5.3
Flashed BEFORE spring update.
Been playing backups with updates and been on halo3 via crackdown backup before and after bannings.


I thought there might be another marriage banning based on live being able to detect if you've changed your fw, but then, i thought the whole point of the firmware was that it couldnt be read..

Oh well, at least they're only banning consoles and not accounts too, i have like 2 years subscription left..

[logan2042]

Ok I dont know why im not banned

78fk hitachi.. flashed with 1.7 FW 1 week ago....

Played Backup of Crackdown.. ONLINE
Played original Gears of war for hours today.

No ban. I also left my 360 on , signed into live.. with crackdown in the tray for about 5 hours today too..

[Justup]

im pretty sure i got the ban hammer i have a hitachi 47dj and i had 2.3 on it and then 2 days after the spring update i updated to 2.4 however i have never had and still dont have the spring update ever since it came out i have not updated and therefor have not been on LIVE. Now it does not ask me to update and also wont go online. when i test connection it fails at xbox LIVE and when i click details it opens a window like the "you are banned" message would be displayed in when you get banned however it is completely empty with no words. I assumed that the wording was part of the spring update so i just see an empty box. I hope this helps to figure out how this ban is working

EDIT: also i didn't mention in my post but i have been using backups ever since stealth firmware came out and have been using them on a regular basis upto now just havn't been online with them since the spring update came out

[ride4bandit]

QUOTE(Justup @ May 18 2007, 03:51 PM)

im pretty sure i got the ban hammer i have a hitachi 47dj and i had 2.3 on it and then 2 days after the spring update i updated to 2.4 however i have never and still dont have the spring update ever since it came out i have not updated and therefor have not been on LIVE. Now it does not ask me to update and also wont go online. when i test connection it fails at xbox LIVE and when i click details it opens a window like the "you are banned" message that is displayed when you get banned however it is completely empty with no words. I assumed that the wording was part of the spring update so i just see an empty box. I hope this helps to figure out how this ban is working

That's interesting

[thewafflehouse]

QUOTE(Osirls @ May 18 2007, 06:29 PM)

Ok well i'm not banned.
Sammy drive with xtreme 5.3
Flashed BEFORE spring update.
Been playing backups with updates and been on halo3 via crackdown backup before and after bannings.
I thought there might be another marriage banning based on live being able to detect if you've changed your fw, but then, i thought the whole point of the firmware was that it couldnt be read..

Oh well, at least they're only banning consoles and not accounts too, i have like 2 years subscription left..

EXACTLY the same.  Also about them collecting for a while i think all you guys with old firmwares whoplayed on live at th ebeging they could have made a list. i only starete dplay my 360 online in april this year with 4.2. not banned yet i can play halo3 beta on xbl with the 5.3 which i updated before spring dashboard.

Infact i can still play on xbox live i consider myself lucky.

Here is my take on the whole thing.

I agree with you that they ahve been colecting data for while. ye myself and some other freinds dont get why we arent banned but others are. The first time i playd on xbox live was april with the 4.2 firmware for my ms25.

I upgraded to the 5.4 BEFORE spring update.

so i thin all you guys who have been plkaying for awhile got screwed and ms coudlnt wait to send a message such as powerful as when halo3 came out.

Here are the conspiricies i beleive so far.

1- They impleted the CRC check in the firmware in the spring update so it checks if u upgraded your firmware after the update ( i did mine before)

2- They are checking the disc id or something / scene backups are sometimes out early and are not retail

3- They can check the speed of the disc??? this explains why some legit consoles got booted mistakenly.

[Rockway]

I'm not banned yet.

FLASHED FIRMWARE: week before the spring update
UPDATED: day of the update
DRIVE: SAMSUNG MS25
FIRMWARE: 5.2 (i dont know which speed)
CRACK DOWN/ HALO 3: NOP.

And yes, I have been playing backups since BEFORE the update till now xD

[Hopeful]

QUOTE(mgctim @ May 18 2007, 10:26 AM)

OK, here's the concept:  it's been long enough for the forums to (mostly) recover from the flood of people on them post-bannings.  We now have communication again, so we can organize and get our beloved firmware producers (LOVE you guys, especially C4E)the information they need in order to get our consoles to be Live-compatible again... or the information they need in order to tell us, in an informed manner, to throw in the towel and buy new ones, or enjoy playing offline.

With this in mind, this thread is for the sole purpose of posting information which REFUTES specific theories on the method MS is using to ban consoles.  Start a new thread if you want to post a new theory.  This thread will be most useful if it is pure data, and speculation is put somewhere else.

I'll start:  I know that the bannings aren't based on whether they know you updated your firmware after the Spring update.  I wasn't online after the update, but updated my firmware on my Samsung drive (MS25) to 5.3 before logging on for the Halo 3 beta with a backup copy of Crackdown.

Please post any personal experience you may have which shoots down any theories that are out there.

Thank you.

Irrelevant. That's actually right in line with the theory.

It disproves nothing. You probably didn't take the time to actually *understand* the theory.

Spring Update Theory: Still on the Table

Actually this is just one more case giving weight to the spring update theory.

It seems to just get more and more likely.

Excellent guess, to whoever came up with it.
 
Most people getting banned seem to have FLASHED their firmware AFTER updating to the spring dash. (Doesn't matter wether they stayed offline or played, the console watched the firmwares change and set a flag ready to alert live. According to the theory, which is making A LOT of sense now.)

Seems like a huge majority of survivors either did their last update BEFORE the spring dash installed itself and infested their system. I'm guessing it includes something like "spyware" monitoring the fw.

If this is the case, you can't upgrade firmwares at all after the spring update, or you'll be live-banned. In my case though, live is only useful for downloading demos.

Is there a way, by the way, to shut off the point system so it doesn't play into my games?

QUOTE(Birdy2k2 @ May 19 2007, 12:01 AM)

I have a launch console with a Hitachi 46 drive that I was running Xtreme 2.3 rev2 on since January.  When C4E announced word of the disc jitter I reverted back to original FW a day before the spring update.  Took the update with no problems, and I'm not banned.  So I don't believe they've been colecting data for a while.  I also don't think there's a blanket ban on launch units, that'd be retarded, since most people I know are still on their launch boxes.

EXACTLY.

The spring update probably somehow constantly monitors your fw for changes.

If you disconnect from live, flash hacked firmware, then flash original back, you may get banned. Meaning that the firmware itself is constantly under check by the spring update, and you can't update your drive AT ALL EVER AGAIN after you have it. (If you want live)

[ITALIANO]

QUOTE(Hopeful @ May 19 2007, 01:28 AM)

If you disconnect from live, flash hacked firmware, then flash original back, you may get banned. Meaning that the firmware itself is constantly under check by the spring update, and you can't update your drive AT ALL EVER AGAIN after you have it. (If you want live)

i don't think the problem is this
becouse my friend get banned Whitout flash anithing "2 times" and whitout play bakup games or halo3 or crackdown after the update...
the only flash he have flashed is the FIRST flash when it take the console the first time..
but he get banned when try to download FM2 demo...

[mcq3000]

Hopeful u totally wrong because there are several people already saying they modded their Xbox360 BEFORE spring update, never got on live and then just got on live and where banned.

[slumberpod77]

I don't normally post over here but figured I'd throw my 2 cents in. I have read basically ALL the information on here and some other forums, and then today I talked to a buddy of mine who does some alpha stuff with Microsoft on their upcoming crossplatform Live stuff (Gears of War playing on your Vista PC in a few months ) What he tells me jives with what I have read and heard elsewhere.

Anyways, he says that word is that MS is using a remote drive diagnostic technique to attempt to detect mod users. He said this remote diagnostic tests the drive's performance in some ways, and if the drive is reading slower than it should or doesn't respond correctly, they ban your ass. This person does not own a 360 and is happy that they're coming down on modders because he wants the Live service to succeed.

This information makes sense because we have mod users and regular users who are banned, because if your drive is defective or dirty it MAY throw up a false positive. Also, the banning has NOTHING to do with Halo 3 or Crackdown, they just chose this day to start banning for maximum psychological effect. It worked, because now everyone is afraid to mod...