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[brandogg]

Don't ever bake your system again. That low of heat won't reflow the solder, but it will overheat just about everything in the system - also, if it were to get hot enough, you'd probably end up with foil stuck to the bottom of your motherboard.

[xolejh]

re doing the x clamp fix didn't solve the instant over heating problem, should I still heat the back of the ana thing anyway?

[ishtar]

QUOTE(ishtar @ Apr 18 2008, 12:06 PM)

Hum thats odd because i read where it flows at 161 degrees instead of 130 sum i had 3 rrod and did the whole deal with x clamp it would work a day or so , so last weekend i figured what the heck so i took everything of and set my oven to 200 degrees set the m/b on foil set it in a cookie sheet covered it with the other half of foil and left it in the oven for thirty minuites or so i figured the foil enclosure would give even heating took it out let it cool down replaced the screw washer combo only using a lock washer for the cpu gpu side only used the screws to secure thr top cover left the m/b chassis screws off  and its been working ever since thats been a week already thats the longest i ever got it to work

QUOTE(brandogg @ Apr 18 2008, 11:12 PM)

Don't ever bake your system again. That low of heat won't reflow the solder, but it will overheat just about everything in the system - also, if it were to get hot enough, you'd probably end up with foil stuck to the bottom of your motherboard.

You may be right but i think your wrong when your using a heat gun thats a hell of a lot hotter than a 200 degree oven the only components that may be affected are the caps and their more than likely solid so if you haven't tried it yet explain to me why it been running for over a week already maybe a fluke? i don't know but if it works for two or three months till the new one comes out i'm still ahead everything else lasted only a day if that and thats only an hour i've been playing for three or more hours

[Wilhelm_I]

QUOTE(ishtar @ Apr 19 2008, 01:25 PM)

You may be right but i think your wrong when your using a heat gun thats a hell of a lot hotter than a 200 degree oven the only components that may be affected are the caps and their more than likely solid so if you haven't tried it yet explain to me why it been running for over a week already maybe a fluke? i don't know but if it works for two or three months till the new one comes out i'm still ahead everything else lasted only a day if that and thats only an hour i've been playing for three or more hours

You need to heat the solder up to more than 219°C to reflow it.
you only heated it up to a max of 200°C which only softens the solder a bit.Your 360 might be fine now but it will more likely get rod again than an xbox which was reflowed.
The oven trick should only be used as a last resort and if you choose to do it you should at least do it right...
With the heatgun you can direct the heat right at the area which is assumed to be causing the issue which might not always be as efficent as the oven trick but at least you dont have to bother that much about blowing some of the larger capacitors.
When you see smoke coming from one of the capacitors you can just move the heatgun away and replace the component but when it starts smoking in the oven it will already be too late.

[ishtar]

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Apr 19 2008, 04:33 PM)

You need to heat the solder up to more than 219°C to reflow it.
you only heated it up to a max of 200°C which only softens the solder a bit.Your 360 might be fine now but it will more likely get rod again than an xbox which was reflowed.
The oven trick should only be used as a last resort and if you choose to do it you should at least do it right...
With the heatgun you can direct the heat right at the area which is assumed to be causing the issue which might not always be as efficent as the oven trick but at least you dont have to bother that much about blowing some of the larger capacitors.
When you see smoke coming from one of the capacitors you can just move the heatgun away and replace the component but when it starts smoking in the oven it will already be too late.

Maybe so but you should know that if the oven is set at 200 it could have been higher my guess it could have went to 250 i never checked temp all i know it was higher than 200  the purpose of the foil enclosure was to hopefully increase even heating of all joints across the m/b also i want to add the heat exhaust is a lot cooler than before ie not as hot it used to blow out hot air now more warm than hot

[jimwross]

QUOTE(xolejh @ Apr 18 2008, 09:52 PM)

re doing the x clamp fix didn't solve the instant over heating problem, should I still heat the back of the ana thing anyway?

Instant re-heating doesnt have to do with the ANA chip.  Loosen up your machine screws a bit see if that helps.

QUOTE(ishtar @ Apr 19 2008, 01:14 PM)

Maybe so but you should know that if the oven is set at 200 it could have been higher my guess it could have went to 250 i never checked temp all i know it was higher than 200  the purpose of the foil enclosure was to hopefully increase even heating of all joints across the m/b also i want to add the heat exhaust is a lot cooler than before ie not as hot it used to blow out hot air now more warm than hot

Argh, the oven concept is not good, you heating up things that arent' supposed to get hot.

[Wilhelm_I]

QUOTE(ishtar @ Apr 19 2008, 08:14 PM)

Maybe so but you should know that if the oven is set at 200 it could have been higher my guess it could have went to 250 i never checked temp all i know it was higher than 200  the purpose of the foil enclosure was to hopefully increase even heating of all joints across the m/b also i want to add the heat exhaust is a lot cooler than before ie not as hot it used to blow out hot air now more warm than hot

well
did you put it into the oven with the heatsink installed?
If so you can be pretty happy that your 360 is working at all as it would have pressed your gpu onto the mainboard if it actually would have reached the melting point...
The fact that the exhaust air is not hot but warm is that you completely fried the thermal compound which doesnt conduct heat properly anymore(max temp 120°C)
If you didnt have the heatsink installed while baking it in the oven you must have done something wrong during the installation of the heatsink as the heat isnt transfered properly to the heatsink.
The cooler the heatsink is the hotter is the chip below....
The foil was actually a good idea as it isolates the components from the direct heat so this might have prevented components from getting too hot. Though this was not your intention
I also doubt that the oven gets up to 250°C when it is set to a 200°C
Check your solder for a golden glance if you see a golden glance you made it to reflow it...

[Faluke]

I just would like to report that this worked for me perfectly using a blow dryer instead of a heat gun. I just had to hold it directly on the motherboard on the highest setting and move up and down slowly. It took a long time but hey it worked! Great TUT! Thanks

[brandogg]

A blow dryer isn't hot enough to reflow solder, your errors will probably be back soon.  To to the who baked his system - is that 200F or 200C? 200C (or even 250, if it may have been that hot) could possibly get some results, but it's still a very bad idea. When I use a heat gun (or used, rather), I isolate the GPU, putting many layers of foil around all (non-SMD) capacitors, exposed switches, etc, so only the necessary parts are heated (GPU and sounding/underside areas). Also, the heatsink *must* be removed or you can have the sink basically squash the GPU down in place, bridging many or all solder below it. You'll also need to replace the thermal paste afterwards, since the overly excessive heat will most likely ruin it.

[ishtar]

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Apr 19 2008, 09:30 PM)

well
did you put it into the oven with the heatsink installed?
If so you can be pretty happy that your 360 is working at all as it would have pressed your gpu onto the mainboard if it actually would have reached the melting point...
The fact that the exhaust air is not hot but warm is that you completely fried the thermal compound which doesnt conduct heat properly anymore(max temp 120°C)
If you didnt have the heatsink installed while baking it in the oven you must have done something wrong during the installation of the heatsink as the heat isnt transfered properly to the heatsink.
The cooler the heatsink is the hotter is the chip below....
The foil was actually a good idea as it isolates the components from the direct heat so this might have prevented components from getting too hot. Though this was not your intention
I also doubt that the oven gets up to 250°C when it is set to a 200°C
Check your solder for a golden glance if you see a golden glance you made it to reflow it...

no i didn't i removed everything from it though i might have done well to leave it attached to the metal  chassis seeing that the m/b layer thickness is shit then after it cooled down take it off and attache heatsinks and then reattach to chassis If it was the thickness of a real m/b i doubt anyone would have problems the m/b is so warped it pathetic i never reattached to chassis only top cover attach and snapped together

[blahdah]

Well my E74 UMM i used an electrial oven and a Ktype thermalcouple to measure the temperature on the board surface

What i did was try to simulate a reflow oven ( i had to use alot foil to protect the caps)
any way just to get you started i didn't get the E74 error fixed but i didn't damage the board anymore i think either

when the board surface reached about 200C i started a one minute timer and then turned off the oven and starting cooling the board about 3-4C/s

anywas i think i got close to what a reflow graph looks like but i didn;t fix the E74 i think i didn't fix it becasue my E74 lies with the ANA chip i insulated the ana chip from heat when i was doing this


So i have two thinks try and ""reflow"" and HOPE i don;t damage anythink this time aroudn again with out insulating the ANA chip or the south bridge

OR SWAP the ANA chip

which one do u guys think i should do

OHH the board still give E74 or ht i can do is place the heatsink on top it not screw it down just place on top and heat the board to around 180C that non melting point for unlead solder but it will get every think loose enough to touch back i think

ANY ideas

[Wilhelm_I]

QUOTE(blahdah @ Apr 20 2008, 10:58 PM)

Well my E74 UMM i used an electrial oven and a Ktype thermalcouple to measure the temperature on the board surface

What i did was try to simulate a reflow oven ( i had to use alot foil to protect the caps)
any way just to get you started i didn't get the E74 error fixed but i didn't damage the board anymore i think either

when the board surface reached about 200C i started a one minute timer and then turned off the oven and starting cooling the board about 3-4C/s

anywas i think i got close to what a reflow graph looks like but i didn;t fix the E74 i think i didn't fix it becasue my E74 lies with the ANA chip i insulated the ana chip from heat when i was doing this
So i have two thinks try and ""reflow"" and HOPE i don;t damage anythink this time aroudn again with out insulating the ANA chip or the south bridge

OR SWAP the ANA chip

which one do u guys think i should do

OHH the board still give E74 or ht i can do is place the heatsink on top it not screw it down just place on top and heat the board to around 180C that non melting point for unlead solder but it will get every think loose enough to touch back i think

ANY ideas

When you do it the next time heat it up to 230°C this is 10°C more than necessary to melt the solder and should definitely work...
make sure you isolate everything except the area from the whole gpu to the whole ana-chip.
Remove the heatsink and thermal compound from the chip, as it will otherwise press the gpu onto the board which will flatten the solderballs...
heating it up to less than 219°C will only fix it temporarily when it gets hot enough you got the same error again...
Maybe you should invest some money into a heatgun this will only heat up the area that you want to heat up
Swapping the ana-chip is not an option either as I dont think that the chip itself is fried

This post has been edited by Wilhelm_I: Apr 20 2008, 11:05 PM

[Smiling Cat]

QUOTE(jimwross @ Apr 8 2008, 08:18 AM)

I think its been pretty well established that the E74 Error has to do with the connection between the ANA / HANA / failure of the Scaler Chip to the GPU

Yeah I think your dead on. After I got my replacement arcade I have been working with my old system. I knew from the start it was most likely the scalar chip, or the connection between them.

When I pulled it apart and looked how the fan cowling directed hot GPU air directly over the chip and the traces between them.

Explained to me why covering the exhaust for a bit while playing would reverse the discoloration which was the first symptom. When I removed the block and the fans spun up and quickly cooled the board the discoloration came right back. Also explained why I didn't see any symptoms of an overheated GPU, or damaged GPU ram which almost always show up as geometry artifacts and not a specific discoloration.

I made sure the GPU was seated and put better, as well of a lot less thermal compound on just the GPU heat sink.

Last thing was I grabbed a blow dryer and pre-heated the bridge between them just to see if it was the problem and I got it working fine until I threw the fan cowling back on and it cooled down. I have a heat gun, but I am reluctant about how much heat, how long, and how to orient the main board while I do it. Start small and work my way up I guess.

[mackemsrule]

My 360 boots up with no picture i know its not the cable i ruled that out, there's just no video the sound works fine but there's no red lights on the front will heating the chips up cure my problem. thanx in advance

[Wilhelm_I]

QUOTE(mackemsrule @ Apr 24 2008, 02:01 PM)

My 360 boots up with no picture i know its not the cable i ruled that out, there's just no video the sound works fine but there's no red lights on the front will heating the chips up cure my problem. thanx in advance

I cant promise anything but I guess it is the scaler-chip in your case as well...
I got an xbox that sometimes got E74 and when I kept turning it on and off it started up without the 1RLOD every once in a while(like 5-10 tries usually)
However this no video issue could also be the gpu...
So just put pressure on the ana-chip while booting or try what the other dude found out(nice investigation by the way)
If it boots then it is the connection of the ana-chip to the gpu...
Otherwise it might rather be GPU related then you will have to do the x-clamp fix penny fix or what so ever there are several fixes for this ceratain error(imo the X-Clamp replacement is the best besides a reflow though)