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[ILLusions0fGrander]

QUOTE

if Microsoft shorted safety margins around many of the design parameters to get the product out on time

then you have a bunch of pissed off 360 owners dealing with bad customer service and delayed repairs. oh wait, we do? so it does make sense.

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(bridarshy @ Jan 22 2008, 11:00 AM)

Zune + this + Vista + IE = F- for MS.

QUOTE(bockjacob @ Jan 22 2008, 12:09 PM)

Hey there's nothing wrong with the new zunes.

Nothing wrong with the old Zunes either.

Aside from DRM and Memory Hoggery there's nothing wrong with Vista

IE6 might blow but IE7 added tabs and fixed most of the major CSS error, IE8 is slated to pass the Acid 2 test which means it has better compatibility than Firefox 2 (though FF3 beta also passes Acid 2)

and there's nothing wrong with the 360 aside from RROD issues... Manufacturing problems can be fixed which is really the only problem with the console IMO.

I don't patronize MS if I don't have to, I use Firefox exclusively I'm migrating from XP to Linux to avoid using Vista, and my decision to buy an Xbox was based purely on the games and features available there that I couldn't get anywhere else. I encourage friends and relatives to use open office as opposed to MS office, and I've got my company to shift software development from VB to Java.

Despite the fact that I don't care for MS and use more open alternatives when I can, their products are far from an "F" and just bashing them for the sake of bashing them is nothing but blatant fanboyism.

[HotKnife420]

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Jan 22 2008, 10:35 PM)

Nothing wrong with the old Zunes either.

Aside from DRM and Memory Hoggery there's nothing wrong with Vista

IE6 might blow but IE7 added tabs and fixed most of the major CSS error, IE8 is slated to pass the Acid 2 test which means it has better compatibility than Firefox 2 (though FF3 beta also passes Acid 2)

and there's nothing wrong with the 360 aside from RROD issues... Manufacturing problems can be fixed which is really the only problem with the console IMO.

I don't patronize MS if I don't have to, I use Firefox exclusively I'm migrating from XP to Linux to avoid using Vista, and my decision to buy an Xbox was based purely on the games and features available there that I couldn't get anywhere else. I encourage friends and relatives to use open office as opposed to MS office, and I've got my company to shift software development from VB to Java.

Despite the fact that I don't care for MS and use more open alternatives when I can, their products are far from an "F" and just bashing them for the sake of bashing them is nothing but blatant fanboyism.

 +1 (first time I've used that expression )

 My friend bought a Zune when it came out, and I thought it was great. Really gave the ipod a run for it's money.

 As for Vista, I don't know why there's such a huge fuss; I use 'Ultimate' and haven't had any real issues with it. Occasionally, I'll have a program crash, but nothing that didn't also happen in XP (at least for me). IE crashed a lot, but I use Firefox and don't have any problems, so it seems to be isolated to that. The only thing I can't figure out is why if I double click an mp3, it will open in winamp, but if I select a group and launch, it wants to use WMP (which stays running even when I close it, according to task manager). Since I haven't heard of this being a common experience, I'm assuming I did something somewhere to cause this dilemma, but haven't been too motivated to fix the problem, either. I haven't noticed DRM in Vista getting in the way of any of my normal activities, so I don't view it as a negative.

 The Xbox was one of the most stable consoles we've seen, wheras the success of the 360 will have a common association of "potential faliure", as many 360 owners have never owned an original xbox. If anyone recalls the PS2's of old, however, system failures can be forgotten by the general masses.

[GamestationOH]

I am shocked that the Media has not covered this problem n more detail. 30% failure in 2 years bull! Then to say that all will fail prematurely! Were is Consumer Union on this subject! Seems if it doesn't kill, poison, maim, or catch fire, then no one cares how the consumer is screwed!

A word on the difference in the Video Game Industry and M$ Software... It has been the standard since 1985 to sell the game machine and lose money on each sale , and make all the profits on the game sales and licensing to 3rd party software developers (Electronic Arts, Namco)

Each price drop on the game systems precede after a re-engineering of the game system to cut costs. It takes years of production to turn profit on the system itself.

 So... Microsoft has lost their butts on this problem!

[GamestationOH]

For those that didn't find the link to the interview with the M$ employee and the inside info on the 3rlod....

http://blog.seattlep...ives/129866.asp

Nice interview!

[skeen]

QUOTE(Fyb3roptik @ Jan 22 2008, 09:44 AM)

For what its worth....MS did pony up to the failures and offered to repair it for free......and even payed for shipping. You didnt see Sony doing that for the PS2 when they KNEW the dvd drives were bad.....

Actually they did, but only after they were forced to because of a lawsuit.  Even then if you wanted it fixed for free you had to say the magic words "disc read error" or they'd try and charge you.  When I called Sony (about 6 times) to get PS2's fixed, I could never get them to admit there was ever a lawsuit or a problem with the drives.  Part of the lawsuit in their favor must have been that they didn't have to admit any guilt.  Either that or they just hired ignorant morons.  
So I agree, at least MS did buck up and fix them for free presumably without a gun to their head. I still don't think I'll be getting one until the problem(s) seem to be fixed properly.