Topic: Bunnie Analyses the Xbox360 RROD Issue ... (Read 150 times)

Xbox-Scene · « **on:** January 21, 2008, 11:00:00 PM »

Bunnie Analyses the Xbox360 RROD Issue ...
Posted by XanTium | January 22 00:24 EST | News Category: Xbox360

(IMG:http://www.burstnet.com/cgi-bin/ads/ad9520b.cgi/ns/v=2.1S/sz=300x250A/

From Bunnie's Blog (yep, THE bunnie from the early days of Xbox1 hacking):

Quote

A while back I posted that I was looking for an RROD Xbox360; I actually sent it off to MEFAS to get digested for solder joint inspection on the GPU through a process called "dye and pry". In this process, the motherboard is flooded with red ink, and then the GPU is mechanically pried off the board. The red ink flows into any of the tiny cracks in the solder balls, and at least in theory, when you pry the GPU off the cracked regions will shear first so you will be left with visible red spots at the points of failure.
(IMG:http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/rrod/rrod_good_interface_sm_s200.jpg) (IMG:http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/rrod/rrod_bad_interface_sm_s200.jpg)
left: Below is what a normal ball looks like after the test
right: One of several balls on the GPU that exhibited signs of partial failure

I was a bit puzzled by these results because you didn't see any "catastrophic" failure -- pools of red ink over a connection interface -- just partial cracking. Partial cracking isn't terribly uncommon, and many products work quite well despite such artifacts. However, after reading the [SeattlePI RRoD] article, if Microsoft shorted safety margins around many of the design parameters to get the product out on time, it makes sense that the summation of many partial failures could lead to a total system failure -- failures that have symptoms that vaguely cluster together but are difficult to point to any single root cause. Heisenbugs. Yuck.

Full Story: Bunnie's Blog

RMM · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2008, 11:45:00 PM »

Thats some very interesting reading. Its just a poor design all the way around which is too bad because its a great gaming machine. If M$ hadnt been in such a hurry to rush out the 360 maybe they would have had a quality product with even more market share.

RRoD420 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2008, 11:49:00 PM »

i'm wasted. bunnie's the MAN!!! fuckin smart dude, probably makes a nice living whatever the hell he does. drivin a lexus is350 chromed out.

Brizzzer · « **Reply #3 on:** January 22, 2008, 12:14:00 AM »

So another words just better quality building of the units and it fixes a lot of the issues?(Chinese are too cheap I guess! lol)

Base8 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 22, 2008, 12:49:00 AM »

Interesting, I haven't heard anything from bunny for a while.. good work though, its good to hear from someone who helped so much with the original xbox.

mole1012000 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 22, 2008, 06:47:00 AM »

I dont know why there is such negatively. Sure they have already admitted there wrong doing BUT they havent fixed a whole lot. So the more pressure thats put on them. I am sure they can do more. This proved that they had the chance to and they didnt.

So a little more media spotlight can`t hurt.

joeyddr · « **Reply #6 on:** January 22, 2008, 07:07:00 AM »

QUOTE(vanxman @ Jan 22 2008, 12:24 PM)

You are assuming people don't LIKE to beat dead horses!!! Isn't there like a medical name for that fetish?

ROFLMAO

good one lol

warmaster_670 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 22, 2008, 07:57:00 AM »

QUOTE(Brizzzer @ Jan 22 2008, 02:50 AM)

So another words just better quality building of the units and it fixes a lot of the issues?(Chinese are too cheap I guess! lol)

ya, im sure it was all the chinese and certainly wasn't Microsoft cutting corners to make more money.

chipD · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2008, 08:21:00 AM »

QUOTE(warmaster_670 @ Jan 22 2008, 04:33 PM)

ya, im sure it was all the chinese and certainly wasn't Microsoft cutting corners to make more money.

I compared my launch day 360 to my newer elite with the extra gpu heatpipe, and the solder quality is actually worse on the elite.It looks like they cut corners even more now then they did at launch.I have my 360 put back together now or i would post some pics, but if you look at the solder points alot of them have "pits" (hard to explain but they look like craters on the moon) I can only imagine how poor the solder balls are underneath the bga chips.

bridarshy · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2008, 08:24:00 AM »

Zune + this + Vista + IE = F- for MS.

bockjacob · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2008, 09:33:00 AM »

QUOTE(bridarshy @ Jan 22 2008, 10:00 AM)

Zune + this + Vista + IE = F- for MS.

Hey there's nothing wrong with the new zunes.

Devedander · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2008, 09:43:00 AM »

I have to wonder how much MS invested in adding another heat sink to the newer consoles and how far that would have gone to paying for better quality parts and assembly...

Fyb3roptik · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:08:00 AM »

For what its worth....MS did pony up to the failures and offered to repair it for free......and even payed for shipping. You didnt see Sony doing that for the PS2 when they KNEW the dvd drives were bad.....

sirsmacketh · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2008, 12:46:00 PM »

Total recall or repair/replace ones that exhibit the RROD problem. Now there's a dilemma for MS.

Coming up with the funding to cover these failed consoles just says to the consumer... yes you're covered if it fails.

It's the consumer's choice to decide whether or not to "chance it" in the hopes of their 360 not dying on them.

If you look at the NPD number for December, the consumer has spoken. Despite MS' admission to the failures.. people still bought a crap load of 360s.

Would a few months more of design solve this issue? Noone knows. The problem is either heat or manufacturing related.

Guess it's a good thing the power supply isn't inside the 360 case. lol

One thing is for sure, with the upcoming hardware revisions, one would HOPE that MS has learned from this and will try to fix the problem.

cena4ever · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2008, 01:05:00 PM »

thanks bunnie for the info i always look forward to any news on stuff from you.

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