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[GamestationOH]

I repair systems have brought a couple of 360s with 3 red lights problem and sent them in for the free 3 years warranty repair. The systems they have sent me are used, but very clean. They have manufacture dates from as early as 11-25-2005! Were would M$ get an xbox that old and it still be clean as new!!! I wonder if they were demo models used at E3 or other shows.

Has anyone gotten a new replacement with the HDMI plug??

[brandogg]

Tons of people have gotten refurbs with HDMI. You probably got an old system because it (the console you received back) recently died, and was refurbished, cleaned, and then sent to you. You get your system back faster if they receive it, send you another refurbished system, then fix yours to send to another person down the road. If yours *did* have HDMI, and you got one back without it, then you should throw a fit so they fix it ASAP, unless of course you didn't use the HDMI to begin with.

[GamestationOH]

No they didn't have the HDMI plug. I am just pissed that they would send out an old system that could get 3RLOD again! Nas anyone opened a refurbished 360 to see if/or how it was repaired?

[GamestationOH]

That didn't answer my question... has anyone opened a refurbished machine and seen what technique was used to fix the system (assuming it broken and then fixed).

Yes, I am well aware that M$ has been sending old machines to people over the last 2 years 6 months.

I would not under any circumstances fix something that is not broken! The success rate of the clamp mod is highly suspect! Unless you work for the FDA in your day job, research and results take at least 6 months...

[flippy10]

QUOTE(GamestationOH @ Jan 18 2008, 05:07 PM)

That didn't answer my question... has anyone opened a refurbished machine and seen what technique was used to fix the system (assuming it broken and then fixed).

Yes, I am well aware that M$ has been sending old machines to people over the last 2 years 6 months.

I would not under any circumstances fix something that is not broken! The success rate of the clamp mod is highly suspect! Unless you work for the FDA in your day job, research and results take at least 6 months...

Highly suspect?

I've personally done this to 6 Xbox 360s, with varying success but at least 2 fixes. And in combination with a vapour reflow, it's unstoppable. I realize what it is (Temporary, since it's broken solder joints being repaired by pressure instead of reflow.), but here's the basic principle behind it. Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is most likely to be correct. The X-Clamps are the cause of the problem with the chips seating. You can take the other things into account such as poor thermal dynamics within the system, user-error (i.e. 'Towel trick'), faulty manufacturing process, and various other things. But in the end, the X-clamps are the most controlled throughout all of the Xbox 360s. You can't argue that.

Aside from that, I'm sure that there are various repair techniques for them. And I'm sure there is a scripted process for doing so, and don't forget that they also know what the error codes mean. So they can pinpoint the problem a lot easier. I'm sure there have been mass-reflow operations, or something of the like. And they also have the ability to replace any part on the board with ease. A lot of the time it won't and can't be obvious to the end-user what was originally the problem with the Xbox. The new GPU heat sink is a step in the right direction, but in the end it's just foreplay until man up and redesign the motherboard for the next revision.

[GamestationOH]

The X clamp is still being used in the redesigned Falcon. So I would have to say that it is not the problem. As I said before , M$ did not make the clamp, and the clamp is used by other companies, without problems.

Link to determine if you have a Falcon:

http://forums.xbox.c...3/ShowPost.aspx

The 2 pin A/C cord is nothing new, I have had one since 2006.

2 out 6 success rate is dismal. Yes it is great to turn a broken system into something that functions for a few weeks or months, but it isn't the Holy Grail. To promote this Mod as something that you should do to a system that has not failed is insane! Heat caused the problem and that is the answer to preventing it.

[Chancer]

QUOTE

Heat caused the problem

 Not quite. heat accelerated the problem. the problem is a combination of things which when added together causes failure. Motherboard thickness and indeed design of the XClamp are contributing factors to the problem. The motherboard and clamping arrangement of the 360 should be of suitable design to withstand warping due to heat.
If you cool the box down you take away the early failure but it is not a solution alone to the poor design

[flippy10]

QUOTE(GamestationOH @ Jan 19 2008, 09:44 PM)

The X clamp is still being used in the redesigned Falcon. So I would have to say that it is not the problem. As I said before , M$ did not make the clamp, and the clamp is used by other companies, without problems.

Link to determine if you have a Falcon:

http://forums.xbox.c...3/ShowPost.aspx

The 2 pin A/C cord is nothing new, I have had one since 2006.

2 out 6 success rate is dismal. Yes it is great to turn a broken system into something that functions for a few weeks or months, but it isn't the Holy Grail. To promote this Mod as something that you should do to a system that has not failed is insane! Heat caused the problem and that is the answer to preventing it.

Just because a company chooses to continue using a certain piece of hardware doesn't mean that, that hardware doesn't have flaws. It may be unwise, but it doesn't mean they aren't doing it. And listen to what I'm saying. If the X-Clamps did not exist, the heat wouldn't have caused the damage that it did. The X-Clamps themselves are the issue, and will continue to be the issue as long as the processors output the amount of heat that they do. (i.e. When the 65nm process GPUs come into play, hopefully soon.)

2/6 Straight Success rate. Meaning I did nothing but apply the bolts to replace the X-Clamps. Nothing more. All of the systems are functioning at 100%, the most recent one done a month ago and the longest running one, 6 months roughly. 6/6 Success rate as far as repair.
 
Furthermore, the X-clamp bolt replacement is something to be used in combination with a reflow, and cooling improvements. Thats the only way that a system will be repaired and have an extended life span. You can't just slap new bolts on your heat sinks and expect the system to live long. (Not to say that this couldn't happen, but highly unlikely.) But the fact remains, that the X-Clamps are the beginning of the tree of problems.

X-Clamps + Thousands of watts of heat (over time...) + Bad Board Engineering = Failure.

I'm not trying to put you completely down here, I'm still pretty new to the forums too. But check out all of the tech sheets for the different components for the motherboard. Read a lot of the threads in this part of the forum (General Hardware) and you'll see the trend start to show. A LOT of the problems in this forum are related to board warp-age.

[GamestationOH]

I am by no means new here. I don't post a lot because I have a business and I do all the repairs and management. I repair all video game system... since 1990. I understand your points... but I believe you seem to stuck on this x-clamp hatred. Yes, replacing the x-clamp can lead to repairing the problem, but the problem is all heat related. If the heat sinks were large enough and the fans removed the heat for the chassis, then the mother board would not warp. If the mother board was thicker, it would not warp. The x-clamps purpose is to hold the heat sink to the CPU/GPU, nothing more.

The new chips will reduce heat, and they do use the same old x-clamp!

Anyway, I really was interested in if anyone had returned a 360 lately... no a year or 2 ago. The 4 boxes I have received in the last 60 days all look brand new! NOT CLEANED UP. But the serial number stickers are dated as far back as 2005. You cannot clean up a console that well! No scatches, dings, bumps...

Seems very strange to see an console dated 2005 and it looks new.

[scuba156]

QUOTE

The x-clamps purpose is to hold the heat sink to the CPU/GPU, nothing more.

the X-clamps not only hold the heatsinks to the GPU/CPU, they also support the middle of the motherboard so it does not flex, but does a poor job at it

QUOTE

Yes, replacing the x-clamp can lead to repairing the problem, but the problem is all heat related.

the problem is not all heat related, the heat is not the cause of the problem, it is only makes the ball roll faster. the lead free solder points and the x-clamps poor design is the root of the problem. the weight of the heat sinks are another factor

[GamestationOH]

QUOTE(scuba156 @ Jan 29 2008, 09:01 PM)

the X-clamps not only hold the heatsinks to the GPU/CPU, they also support the middle of the motherboard so it does not flex, but does a poor job at it
the problem is not all heat related, the heat is not the cause of the problem, it is only makes the ball roll faster. the lead free solder points and the x-clamps poor design is the root of the problem. the weight of the heat sinks are another factor

I have had customers with 360's that freeze, and when I run the 360 with the clam shell off it will play for day straight with no freezing. Heat is the first cause (primary cause) of the problems...

[scuba156]

then why dont you just fix all your 3ROD boxes by adding more fans? because heat is not the main problem, its the pressure and the warping of the motherboard created by the x clamps bad design. heat is just one of the many factors

[GamestationOH]

QUOTE(scuba156 @ Jan 30 2008, 01:22 PM)

then why don't you just fix all your 3ROD boxes by adding more fans? because heat is not the main problem, its the pressure and the warping of the motherboard created by the x clamps bad design. heat is just one of the many factors

The questions I have posted here are not how to fix 3rod or what is the best fix...

Some have said that they believe that the clamps are the cause of the 3rod, when heat is the primary cause of the failure.

Driving drunk is the cause of a car accident, not how to repair a car...

[flippy10]

We could argue this point up and down, but in the end, like I said in the beginning, each box was exposed to similar but different heating and cooling patterns. It's not controlled enough to be the primary cause. Heat is a contributing factor. Another link in the chain.

And seriously, that was the worst metaphor for this situation ever.  

[PilknDunn]

I recieved a new 360 from microsoft, a few days ago.. The MFG Date is 12-27-07 (No HDMI).. Which is newer then my FALCON 360 its MFG Date is 11-14-07 (HDMI).. Maybe my other was replaced with a NEW 360.. lol Highly unlikely but, I even has the new console smell lmao...

Just thought I would throw that into this convo... lol