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QUOTE(G0t M4xx 21 @ Oct 22 2007, 11:22 PM)

The CPU and GPU connect to the motherboard through hundreds of balls of solder in between the two components.

As the 360's motherboard heats and cools many times, it warps, and some of the solder balls will crack and stop conducting.

One fix is to heat up the GPU with a SMT rework station, and reflow (remelt) the solder balls so that the broken ones will flow back together and fix the connection. The limitation is that the lead-free solder used on the 360 is hard to work with and is brittle (why they broke in the first place).

The better alternative is to actually remove the GPU/CPU from the board, remove all the solder, put fresh solder balls on the chips, and reinstall them on the board with a BGA rework station.

Hmm, know anyone who does that? Anywhere? I am willing to ship the console

[troublemaker400]

Now I'm confused.....  should I send it to xb360reflow.com or xbox360pros

So far I've gathered that xbox360pros do a reflow and "cooling mods" that I'm not sure what they are.

xb360reflow will either reflow or reball.

I'm not sure which one is the better repair.  Any experience with these guys?

Luke

[BerT69]

Well just to clarify....Im not bashing anyone, Im just posting my experience

I work at a local video game store doing repairs, the xclamp mod has done much, but slowly some of the systems returned..SOOO I looked into reflow services. All of the boards sent off had been either fitted with new thermal paste and xclamp mod, or were just dead all together.

I send 4 ROD boards and drives to both companies

www.xbox360-pros.com= I sent them 4 boards, talked to the guys several times. Good communication and within the states so the shipping was nominal. The gentleman orignally told me it looked like all boards were reapairable, and requested prepayment.  Then he called me 2 hours later to inform me they all were dead. Kinda weird, but He shipped them back, and did not charge me anything. Very professional in my opinion. So I was only out my shipping going to him, which is normal.  This was for the reflow service. Truth of the matter is, like the original poster claimed, reballing is a good solution, but its not worth it in the long run, especially since 360 prices are coming down

http://www.xb360reflow.com/ = Sent 4 boards (2 of them were from xbox360-pros batch) And the 2 that were untouched boards came back functioning and so far still are. I have them under grueling halo3 lan parties for a day or so testing. Jack was real easy to reach and always called back. Great guy just seemed a bit high strung. Talked real fast . Downside is hes in canada, so shipping was NUTS, but cost of the job was nominal so it almost made up for it. But shipping time was lengthy too. But Im happy with results so far, 2 out of 4.  Im gettin another batch ready as we speak.

Both people were super professional,,,, and communication was good too. Like I said, Im not downing anyone, this is just my experience so far. Seeing how I have many many more systems that are dead, Im sure I will have more chances to see what happens. I might even do a reball on one of my machines just to see the longevity. Me and Jack got into a good discussion about it. Reballing with leaded solder sounds good, but its lower temp solder, so whats to keep the same thing from happening if the board heats up and flexes, kinda sounds like a toss up to me.

[waytoodeep03]

There is a user named G0t M4xx 21 on these forums that does reflow for like 40 bux shipped.

His page is here

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showuser=164910

[SonicPower]

Just printed out a shipping label to be sent off to Xbox 360 Pros.

Hopefully, they work?

[SonicPower]

Update: Xbox360-Pros couldn't fix it either.

They offered me a refurbished Xbox for $170.  Take it or leave it?

[SlickWilly440]

QUOTE(G0t M4xx 21 @ Oct 22 2007, 11:22 PM)

The CPU and GPU connect to the motherboard through hundreds of balls of solder in between the two components.

As the 360's motherboard heats and cools many times, it warps, and some of the solder balls will crack and stop conducting.

One fix is to heat up the GPU with a SMT rework station, and reflow (remelt) the solder balls so that the broken ones will flow back together and fix the connection. The limitation is that the lead-free solder used on the 360 is hard to work with and is brittle (why they broke in the first place).

The better alternative is to actually remove the GPU/CPU from the board, remove all the solder, put fresh solder balls on the chips, and reinstall them on the board with a BGA rework station.

So isn't the towel trick of overheating the cpu/gpu the cheaper/low quality version of the SMT rework station fix?

Also if the solder ball contained lead in them, this problem wouldn't occur?  

Is it possible to reball the cpu/gpu using leaded solder balls without using a BGA work station?

[SlickWilly440]

^

Nevermind, I did some searching and found the answers to my question in another, more detail thread discussing the Reballing of the 360 on this site.

[waytoodeep03]

QUOTE(SlickWilly440 @ Nov 6 2007, 07:33 PM)

So isn't the towel trick or overheating the cpu/gpu by unplugging the fans  the cheaper/low quality version of the SMT rework station fix?

I was thinking the same thing. Can anyone confirm or deny this claim?

[SlickWilly440]

^
I can deny my own claim for you.

So I read this thread: http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?sho...79364&st=45 and according to SMTRework, he said that when overheating the 360, it does not get hot enough to reflow the lead-free solder, but it actually warps the board, in hopes of the cpu/gpu's solder balls reconnecting with each other.  Thus temporarily solving the 3rlod problem.

This post has been edited by SlickWilly440: Nov 8 2007, 05:37 PM

[troublemaker400]

I sent mine off to http://www.xbox360-pros.com/ the other day.  Hopefully they'll have better luck with mine.  They're claiming a 95% sucess rate, but the way my luck goes I'll be in the 5%.

If they can't fix mine then I'll probably end up trying to find an arcade system with the falcon chip in it.

I'll update once I hear something from them.

[bebrewer1]

I sent my old 360 off to Superbee earlier this week.  He was pretty responsive when I made my initial inquiry and I hope to have it back within 3 weeks.  He said they had a 2 week delay currently.  As mentioned earlier in the thread, the big thing for me was international shipping.  It cost $35 for USPS Priority shipping to Canada.

[SonicPower]

Update: Xbox-360 Pros could not fix my Xbox 360.

They refunded my money for the repairs and return shipping costs because I decided to give the Xbox 360 to them.

[SlickWilly440]

QUOTE(SonicPower @ Nov 9 2007, 04:09 PM)

Update: Xbox-360 Pros could not fix my Xbox 360.

They refunded my money for the repairs and return shipping costs because I decided to give the Xbox 360 to them.

What would they have done if you wanted the console returned?  Would they have kept the repair fee, even though they didn't fix it, and charged you money to ship the console back to you?

Do you 100% know that they couldn't fix the console?  Maybe they fixed the console and then told you that they couldn't fix it, but they would give you a full refund if you let them keep the console.  That way they can make much more money selling a fixed console.

This post has been edited by SlickWilly440: Nov 10 2007, 12:14 AM

[troublemaker400]

Well I got mine back from xbox360pros today.  It works, but the lights on the front of it are now out and do not work.  I'm sending it back to them since I can't open it without voiding thier warranty.  I can understand this...stuff happens and they're willing to fix it.

The thing that irritates me the most is that they done the 12v mod without even so much as letting me know that they were going to do it and now my xbox sounds like a jet engine in my living room.  Had I known this up front I would have sent it somewhere else or not sent it in at all, and just got an arcade system.

I called and talked to them about the lights not working and basically I expressed my concerns about the fans being on 100% blastoff all the time and I was told that the only way they will warranty thier repair is if that's done.  I'm pretty upset about this because really I don't even want to play it if it's going to be that loud.  I work in a factory all day and when I come home I don't want to have to listen to that.

I would recommend not using xbox360-pros.com unless you want a really loud xbox.

Luke

I'll post back up if they are willing to rectify the situation in some way.