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[JAG_128]

my 1st. 360 died with the 3rrod ...... so i was abit  worried on getting another , but i did get a good deal on ebay so my 2nd came about 18 mths ago now, and ive hammered it since ive had it , with sessions from 2 - 20 hrs atime , now i cant wait to get a 3rd one so i can get onto live, but it wont happen till this new mb is in. ide say 1 thing about having two 360's one can be chipped or flashed for the downloaded crap .... and the other you can use onlive with the good games that you pay for,and Halo 3 is awsome lol .. special edition for me on that 1 :-)

[flashfreak]

"OmGzOrz! I cannotz waitz 4 the jasper!"

I bet those kinda comments will be flooding in soon. I remember when the falcon was announced, people couldnt wait for it as if it was a whole new console. Get a fucking hold of yourself, its a motherboard, and its hardly any different.

Just my 2 cents. Im sure people know exactly what i mean by this.

[midnightcharger2]

Did anyone forget the xbox 1, ps2 or psp.
How many revisions did they go through on the past models.

Microsoft is not revising the machines just for the ones that are techie's.  Out of the population that uses the xbox 360, how many do you think have any knowlege further then plugging it in and popping in a disc.  If your pissed that they make revisions so slow, dont buy the product.

They make revisions to the machines to help cut costs.  As the price of the 360 depriciates, which its rapidly going to do over the next year,  the revisions will help off-set the cost of production and keep the loss margin lower.  

Further in the situation.  As homebrew is next to nothing at the moment, who knows what implemented security features will be introduced in the future revisions.  If the homebrew scene ever explodes, which versions do you think will have it first???  First release machines are always the better target for the hacker since not all loop-holes have been found and plugged up by the company.  As Microsoft for this example gains better knowledge on what the community learns and knows about the current hardware, they will make the future versions much more secure (but never impossible to hack) then the current machines.

People cry and whine like this is the only consumer product that ever existed.
Do these people cry over other products as much as this?  I.E. cars, T.V.'s etc.
People get a grip of yourselves.

[spurs2k5]

QUOTE(midnightcharger2 @ Oct 10 2007, 09:15 AM)

Did anyone forget the xbox 1, ps2 or psp.
How many revisions did they go through on the past models.

Microsoft is not revising the machines just for the ones that are techie's.  Out of the population that uses the xbox 360, how many do you think have any knowlege further then plugging it in and popping in a disc.  If your pissed that they make revisions so slow, dont buy the product.

They make revisions to the machines to help cut costs.  As the price of the 360 depriciates, which its rapidly going to do over the next year,  the revisions will help off-set the cost of production and keep the loss margin lower.  

Further in the situation.  As homebrew is next to nothing at the moment, who knows what implemented security features will be introduced in the future revisions.  If the homebrew scene ever explodes, which versions do you think will have it first???  First release machines are always the better target for the hacker since not all loop-holes have been found and plugged up by the company.  As Microsoft for this example gains better knowledge on what the community learns and knows about the current hardware, they will make the future versions much more secure (but never impossible to hack) then the current machines.

People cry and whine like this is the only consumer product that ever existed.
Do these people cry over other products as much as this?  I.E. cars, T.V.'s etc.
People get a grip of yourselves.

OK 1st off none of those products mentioned did not have nearly the fail rate nor were the issues as large as the case with the 360.  Last time i checked IE sux (Mozilla Baby!!!!) and cars and tv's....well american cars are not as reliable as japanesse cars and i wanna see one person that has a tv not made by sony, vizio, mitsubishi ect, on top of that i have yet to see someone say "hey this tv i just bought broke down in 3 months".  Finally, at this point, i dont think M$ is worried about the 360 being comprimised, but instead focus on getting a product out that wont break down in a few months.

[d-range]

I don't get all the fuss you're all making. They already did a die shrink for the CPU and added the extra heatsink you know? Which will most likely be enough to fix the reliability issues. I don't have any facts on this, but I don't see a lot of people with the new Zephyr mobo with the 65-nm CPU complaining they still get the RROD either. Why on earth would you care about the production process of the GPU in your console, as long as it's reliable?? It's not going to be any faster or better than even a 1st generation 360. If the GPU is not the chip causing older 360's to overheat, there is not really a reason for MS to replace it, except for cost reduction (which is also pretty marginal I guess, the GPU is only 1 part of the console).

This post has been edited by d-range: Oct 10 2007, 11:02 AM

[Heet]

Bah, this issue is too old to even comment on....

This post has been edited by Heet: Oct 10 2007, 11:30 AM

[spurs2k5]

QUOTE(d-range @ Oct 10 2007, 11:01 AM)

I don't get all the fuss you're all making. They already did a die shrink for the CPU and added the extra heatsink you know? Which will most likely be enough to fix the reliability issues. I don't have any facts on this, but I don't see a lot of people with the new Zephyr mobo with the 65-nm CPU complaining they still get the RROD either. Why on earth would you care about the production process of the GPU in your console, as long as it's reliable?? It's not going to be any faster or better than even a 1st generation 360. If the GPU is not the chip causing older 360's to overheat, there is not really a reason for MS to replace it, except for cost reduction (which is also pretty marginal I guess, the GPU is only 1 part of the console).

Ok do you mean new Falcon?  2nd, form my exp and most ppl ive talked on these forums or others, seem to have the biggest issue with GPU.  Word around the barn is that M$ maybe went ahead with 65nm CPU and left the GPU untouched.  Ram chips might be affected by this as well?  Maybe.  In the end no one will really know the outcome till someone gets bold enough to rip open a brand new 360.  As far as the new heatsink...well they were appearently on the new elites.  Just look on youtube and type broken xbox 360 elite.  So maybe that added pipe and heatsink not the answer?  Who knows.  Guess we will just have to wait.

P.S.  Hey Heet your pc360 rocks!!!!!!!

This post has been edited by spurs2k5: Oct 10 2007, 11:46 AM

[RBJTech]

It all boils down to cost of manufacturing - I've said it before and I'll say it again ...

The CPU has gone to 65nM, meaning a higher yield and a non-heatpipe aluminium heatsink (cheap).

The GPU @ 65nM follows meaning again a higher yield and back to the original aluminium heatsink (cheap).

The problem is with the GPU, so they can do whatever they like to the CPU and it will make no difference to the reliability of the console - so 'Falcon' to me means nothing.

The extra heatpipe on the GPU is the ONLY improvement they have made to the reliability of a stock console IMO (and even that is a quick fix rather than a properly engineered cooling redesign..).

[bucko]

HaHa, I did want 65NM but I also wanted a 360, honestly ill get a Core down the line to mess about with hopefully that will be Falcon or Jasper.

Maybe this guy though doesn't realise that the Xbox 1 had 6 motherboard variants (cost reductions) and the PS2 had 15 motherboard variants (again cost reductions), it's nothing new in the industry I don't see why people are so worked up about it.

[steveju]

Anyone else find this "codename" a bit odd? I mean it sounds so wrong...
Xenon -> Zephyr -> Falcon -> Jasper?
They could have come up with a way better name for it. (Wiki: Jasper is an opaque, impure variety of quartz, usually red, yellow or brown in color. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif))

I think "Jasper" will reach us 360 owners eventually, at least when we're return our RROD for warranty. I don't think it's possible or even profitable to keep the older models circulating back and forth between Microsoft's repair service and the consumer for three years.

[turk3y]

perhaps people should look at it in a different way, we all know that the gpu is getting to hot, so I would presume do microsoft, so they could spend a year reducing to 65nm but that wont help with the 10 million old units that are going to come back to be repaired (if you presume that all old box's will break). So perhaps they spent the time trying to come up with solutions to the current design, so they could imporve new box's and also make a difference to returned ones, now they think thye have cracked that issue (elite seems to fair pretty well) they are now happy with the desing of the cooling so they are looking at altering the hw to help knowing they can still improve the faulty units as they come in. Also as we all know the return rate has been way higher than expected perhaps it has taken all of their rescources just to handle the influx.

I think that senario is plausable, but does not excuse the fact its taken 2 years to realise there is not enough airflow over the gpu  and the heatpipe addon..... the 360 is a great bit of kit when working... its just a shame that it obvioulsy was rushed out the door and never tested properly, and ms techies are just dragging their feet.

[Axl_Mas]

Well! I will wait until Christmas 2008 to buy xbox360!

[0794]

QUOTE(Axl_Mas @ Oct 10 2007, 08:58 AM)

Well! I will wait until Christmas 2008 to buy xbox360!

i laugh every time i read about how people keep saying that they will keep waiting and waiting for a 360 as each new "revision" or "gaming bundle" is announced as we have seen it over and over again...obviously you don't really even want one that badly to begin with if you can wait for years to get one...while you guys keep sitting there waiting and making those type of posts - i and millions of others are enjoying the hell of our 360s...

i do know that many are waiting to buy a second 360 and understand waiting for that purpose for more robust hardware...


this revision does seem to be a slow advancement in reduction of the GPU core size, but i am sure that MS would bring it to us sooner if they could..

[big_sigh]

There is nothing wrong with "90nm".

Stop blaming "90nm" GPUs for the 360's problems. There's nothing wrong with them. The 360's ability to deal with the heat they generate was/is a problem, but not the fact they were "90nm".

Shut up about "90nm". Waiting for "65nm" just because it is not "90nm" is stupid.

There are plenty of superb, ultra reliable pieces of hardware that use TSMC's 90nm process. My PC's GPU uses TSMC's 90nm process and it kicks out a great deal more heat than the XGPU. AMD's fastest and most power efficient parts are still made on "90nm" processes, and Nvidia still use it for their high end graphics chips. Just stop this "WAAAAAAH MS are stupid/lazy/cheap for not already using 65nm GPU".

Changing over to TSMC's 90nm eDram process (which Falcon does) is probably a good thing, and I wouldn't be suprised if the GPU as a whole now consumed less power, and generated less heat, as a result. The seemingly revised main GPU chip may possibly require less power too (as yields have almost certainly improved drastically).

Also worth noting:

- Lots of reliable things use x-clamps
- A percentage of all hardware fails
- The RROD is a general hardware failure warning and future Xbox 360's will still see this and it doesn't mean OMG STUPID MS HAVE DONE NOTHING TO FIX TEH 360 PROBLEMS 90NANNYMEETER!!!!!

Reducing power consumption and heat generation - as has happened in the Falcons - is a GOOD THING and makes the GPU cooler's job easier, makes keeping everything else cool easier and probably means the 360's flaky, heavily loaded PSU (they didn't leave much headroom) should cause far fewer problems.

If MS wanted, they could easily make an all 65nm 360 that screwed up more than Zephyr/Falcon, so if you want a 360 just buy one and play it.

[Lezlyte]

QUOTE(spurs2k5 @ Oct 10 2007, 05:30 AM)

Total BS.  Thats typical M$ for you.  What are the people in the mean time gonna do that own current units?  Oh wait I know, they will just send them in every 3-6 months and wait a month to get them repaired and still be happy.   For the ones that are saying hey its ok ill wait and still be happy with the way M$ has handled this....Well to each his own but IMO, it just seems M$ is digging themselves in a deeper hole by making everyone once again wait while they find a solution (or apply) to this whole mess.  If GOW ever hits the PS3 then so long crap box.  Im tired of reading about frusterated people along with myself, who keep getting the run around from M$.  Oh BTW, i have never seen ROD on an elite until 3 days ago, when my I went to my friends apt and we were playing GOW and sure enough...BAM it froze then after restart ROD.  Great Job M$!

What are people going to do?  Speak for yourself, I'm going to play on my perfectly good console, watch some movies, maybe even get an XNA subscription.