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Author Topic: (Rumor) MS Adding 2nd GPU HeatSink for Better Cooling?  (Read 1065 times)

RBJTech

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(Rumor) MS Adding 2nd GPU HeatSink for Better Cooling?
« Reply #75 on: June 14, 2007, 09:50:00 AM »

In itself there is nothing wrong with the X-Clamp design (shock horror..)

HEAT of the heatsink is what is causing the board to warp - ripping itself away from the BGA solder joints.

This can be prooven easily as the CPU also uses the same X-clamp !  

99.9% of the failures are GPU related - so why is the CPU hardly affected ?   Simply put, it is cooled much better with the larger heatsink and heatpipe design - but it still uses the X-Clamps ... wink.gif

If we can cool the GPU heatsink to a level that will not create board warpring, then problem solved.

I believe this solution will work - there is absoltely no reason why MS have invested time and effort designing a fix if it's half arsed and doesn't work - they have too much to lose IMO ...

(I could have designed something a lot better, but hey there you go ...  tongue.gif )



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throwingks

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(Rumor) MS Adding 2nd GPU HeatSink for Better Cooling?
« Reply #76 on: June 14, 2007, 01:41:00 PM »

QUOTE(throwingks @ Jun 12 2007, 07:59 PM) View Post
I don't believe it. Where is this heat supposed to go? It is still inside the 360.
Looks like I was wrong, lots of these are showing up now. But, it still seems like a band-aid to me. The heat is still in the box. Oh, well.
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DuBob4432

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(Rumor) MS Adding 2nd GPU HeatSink for Better Cooling?
« Reply #77 on: June 14, 2007, 09:01:00 PM »

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Jun 14 2007, 09:26 AM) View Post

In itself there is nothing wrong with the X-Clamp design (shock horror..)

HEAT of the heatsink is what is causing the board to warp - ripping itself away from the BGA solder joints.

This can be prooven easily as the CPU also uses the same X-clamp !  

99.9% of the failures are GPU related - so why is the CPU hardly affected ?   Simply put, it is cooled much better with the larger heatsink and heatpipe design - but it still uses the X-Clamps ... wink.gif

If we can cool the GPU heatsink to a level that will not create board warpring, then problem solved.

I believe this solution will work - there is absoltely no reason why MS have invested time and effort designing a fix if it's half arsed and doesn't work - they have too much to lose IMO ...

(I could have designed something a lot better, but hey there you go ...  tongue.gif )


i personally agree and kind of disagree w/ RBJTech and think the clamp being on the gpu is a problem and may not possibly be an issue on the cpu heatsink and here is my reasoning:

- the gpu heatsink is not a structurally strong design.  i am not a structural engineer but by just looking at it you could see it would be pretty easy to bend down at the areas of the attaching mechanism, the xclamp.  and the xclamp does pull down pretty hard.  i was surprised when i took mine off how much effort it was puttying on the heatsink.

- the cpu by design is stronger with the manner w/ the ears and the center area and the fact that it does work much better doesn't allow the extreme heat to be built up in it, it is just a much better cooler from a structure standpoint and a heatsink standpoint.

- my reason for thinking the way i do is that i have seen my friends heatsink and it was visually warped.  not folded over but definitely warped in a way that be appropriate w/ the xclamps pulling on it at the attaching points.  now this is where i feel a lot of the problems come in.  the gpu, after time of being heated and cooled over and over becomes weaker with the constant stress of the xclamp on it.  this in turn would pull the sides down and the area around the actual core would raise up, even a bit, then there would be no direct contact w/ the gpu core itself, and as we know, air is not that good of a thermal conductor and thus the temperature would rise drastically in the area between the heatsink and the core itself..  i don't feel like the thermal compound ms made the 360 w/ would allow for this movement and would "pop" off and unbind from the 2 units, and my feelings on this again were from when i took my 360 apart and out how the compound was and my heatsink did just that - the heatsink compound was not soft at all but hard.

- also in closing, i really hope that ms new design doesn't make the heatsink weaker and warp easier.  i would also like to know if my friends gpu heatsink warping is an isolated incident.  with him being a machinist by trade, the warp was very easy for him to see and also very easy for him to mill the heatsink down flat again, i just wonder how many other heatsinks are warped and have been fixed more by AS5 actually giving a good contact between the 2 units.  unfortunately i know we will never get real numbers from ms.... sad.gif

my opinions are based of what i have seen w/ my own eyes, and i must reiterate that i have a great deal of respect for RBJTech as i believe he does us all a service by sharing his excellent tutorials with all of us.  again, this is my opinion and i may wrong, but again just another opinion smile.gif
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RBJTech

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(Rumor) MS Adding 2nd GPU HeatSink for Better Cooling?
« Reply #78 on: June 15, 2007, 05:17:00 AM »

QUOTE(DuBob4432 @ Jun 15 2007, 04:37 AM) View Post

i personally agree and kind of disagree w/ RBJTech and think the clamp being on the gpu is a problem and may not possibly be an issue on the cpu heatsink and here is my reasoning:

- the gpu heatsink is not a structurally strong design.  i am not a structural engineer but by just looking at it you could see it would be pretty easy to bend down at the areas of the attaching mechanism, the xclamp.  and the xclamp does pull down pretty hard.  i was surprised when i took mine off how much effort it was puttying on the heatsink.

- the cpu by design is stronger with the manner w/ the ears and the center area and the fact that it does work much better doesn't allow the extreme heat to be built up in it, it is just a much better cooler from a structure standpoint and a heatsink standpoint.

- my reason for thinking the way i do is that i have seen my friends heatsink and it was visually warped.  not folded over but definitely warped in a way that be appropriate w/ the xclamps pulling on it at the attaching points.  now this is where i feel a lot of the problems come in.  the gpu, after time of being heated and cooled over and over becomes weaker with the constant stress of the xclamp on it.  this in turn would pull the sides down and the area around the actual core would raise up, even a bit, then there would be no direct contact w/ the gpu core itself, and as we know, air is not that good of a thermal conductor and thus the temperature would rise drastically in the area between the heatsink and the core itself..  i don't feel like the thermal compound ms made the 360 w/ would allow for this movement and would "pop" off and unbind from the 2 units, and my feelings on this again were from when i took my 360 apart and out how the compound was and my heatsink did just that - the heatsink compound was not soft at all but hard.

- also in closing, i really hope that ms new design doesn't make the heatsink weaker and warp easier.  i would also like to know if my friends gpu heatsink warping is an isolated incident.  with him being a machinist by trade, the warp was very easy for him to see and also very easy for him to mill the heatsink down flat again, i just wonder how many other heatsinks are warped and have been fixed more by AS5 actually giving a good contact between the 2 units.  unfortunately i know we will never get real numbers from ms.... sad.gif

my opinions are based of what i have seen w/ my own eyes, and i must reiterate that i have a great deal of respect for RBJTech as i believe he does us all a service by sharing his excellent tutorials with all of us.  again, this is my opinion and i may wrong, but again just another opinion smile.gif


All opinions welcome - I don't have all the answers I can assure you of that !

The GPU heatsink is very strong structurally one way (cross fins) and weak inline with the fins.  I do not believe the X clamps themselves have the force to bend the heatsink - however, things like thermal expansion can create huge pressures and easily bend things.  So maybe because the central bit under the die gets so hot and the outer areas and fins don't - this creates differing expansion rates and the thing bends in extreme cases ...

Anyway - we are getting a little offtopic here ...

I believe the heatpipe will take aware the severe heat and solve the problem..

ps - respect mutual - I admire the work you're doing with the copper heatsink .. smile.gif
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RBJTech

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(Rumor) MS Adding 2nd GPU HeatSink for Better Cooling?
« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2007, 03:36:00 PM »

QUOTE(holyjewsus @ Jun 17 2007, 03:50 PM) View Post

so, if you have been using your xbox for an extended amount of time and your motherboard is flexed to a point where it has problems how can adding an extra heatsink and pipe fix the problem after the fact?


It can't, it is supposed to be a preventitive measure to stop it breaking in the first place...

After a professional reflow or X-clamp replacement should also work fine to keep the GPU cooler.
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VanydotK

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(Rumor) MS Adding 2nd GPU HeatSink for Better Cooling?
« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2008, 10:59:00 AM »

QUOTE(jaap75 @ Mar 7 2008, 06:42 PM) View Post

Hi guys,

Is anybody needing some pics of another angle or some more information?
Becease i got my xbox back from micrsoft whit a brand new motherboard, and yes, it has a 2nd heatsink.

I would be glad to help you out if help is needed.

Kind regard.
Yoeri


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