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[SnufftheCrimeDog]

This my belief, and I realize there are some clashing ideas here, and I could possibly way off, but as I said here what i think in regards to the washer. With the washer use as many as you can till the the GPU and CPU can make the connection with the die. I've never been able to use 3 washers it my xbox just wasnt have none of that. So my xbox is using 2 washers, my friends who we had to re-do from Lawdawgs, is also using two washers. Finally the third one I fixed only has one washer. There all working now, so I think you should use as many as your system allows. BUT, and a big but here you should always have at least one washer. This can help you gauge tightness and stability of the sinks' on the die. My question for anyone who can answer this as I said the third one I fixed would not take 2 washers, it just wouldn't. Incorrect thickness in washer I believe. So my question is because its obviously the wrong thickness and it is only possible to use one washer, is this washer equivelent to 2 or 3 washers?

[booker]

QUOTE(SnufftheCrimeDog @ May 2 2007, 09:17 PM)

This my belief, and I realize there are some clashing ideas here, and I could possibly way off, but as I said here what i think in regards to the washer. With the washer use as many as you can till the the GPU and CPU can make the connection with the die. I've never been able to use 3 washers it my xbox just wasnt have none of that. So my xbox is using 2 washers, my friends who we had to re-do from Lawdawgs, is also using two washers. Finally the third one I fixed only has one washer. There all working now, so I think you should use as many as your system allows. BUT, and a big but here you should always have at least one washer. This can help you gauge tightness and stability of the sinks' on the die. My question for anyone who can answer this as I said the third one I fixed would not take 2 washers, it just wouldn't. Incorrect thickness in washer I believe. So my question is because its obviously the wrong thickness and it is only possible to use one washer, is this washer equivelent to 2 or 3 washers?

SnufftheCrimeDog,
I don´t understand how you were able to use only 1 washer on 1 system and 2 washer on 2 other system.. does the space between the mobo and the HS were different or you just used more preassure on 360 u used 1 washer?

Honeslty i may try 1 washer  because i´m out of ideas if my system keep freezing (wich is highly probably) But again.. 1 washer.. is too thin for the space between the mobo and the HS.

[blankaz]

As far as i know the root of the 3RLOD is in the GPU , so is it enough to replace only the GPU xclamp and leave the CPU's the way it is ?

[RBJTech]

QUOTE(booker @ May 2 2007, 09:26 PM)

SnufftheCrimeDog,
I don´t understand how you were able to use only 1 washer on 1 system and 2 washer on 2 other system.. does the space between the mobo and the HS were different or you just used more preassure on 360 u used 1 washer?

Honeslty i may try 1 washer  because i´m out of ideas if my system keep freezing (wich is highly probably) But again.. 1 washer.. is too thin for the space between the mobo and the HS.

I guess it all depends on the thickness of the washers ..  

Mine are 0.71mm thick (measured with a digital calipar) so 3 of mine make just over 2mm, whilst three of yours makes 3mm.  That's the difference.

If you are getting lock up 5-10 mins in, then it's heat related meaning you are only 'just' pressing the contact (when cold).  When the chip expands, it breaks the contact and bang you get a freeze.  Either improve the cooling so it doesn't get as hot, or increase the pressure on the bolts and/or decrease the number of 'safety' washers.    You don't even need to do it across all 4 corners - you may find that by just cranking up one corner, you solve the problem.

I hope this helps ..

QUOTE(blankaz @ May 2 2007, 09:34 PM)

As far as i know the root of the 3RLOD is in the GPU , so is it enough to replace only the GPU xclamp and leave the CPU's the way it is ?

That's correct - but if it's all apart, why not do both to be sure ?

[SnufftheCrimeDog]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ May 2 2007, 05:06 PM)

I guess it all depends on the thickness of the washers ..  (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Mine are 0.71mm thick (measured with a digital calipar) so 3 of mine make just over 2mm, whilst three of yours makes 3mm.  That's the difference.

If you are getting lock up 5-10 mins in, then it's heat related meaning you are only 'just' pressing the contact (when cold).  When the chip expands, it breaks the contact and bang you get a freeze.  Either improve the cooling so it doesn't get as hot, or increase the pressure on the bolts and/or decrease the number of 'safety' washers.    You don't even need to do it across all 4 corners - you may find that by just cranking up one corner, you solve the problem.

I hope this helps ..
That's correct - but if it's all apart, why not do both to be sure ?

 
....Not to sound like and idiot...but RBJTech...did you go to xbox 360 school (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) That makes a alot of sense. So if the heatsink wasnt firmly on the die then that why you get those lock ups. Now would this cause your xbox to get the 3rols again. Because I know when one or two of the lock nuts were loose on the GPU the 360 froze like 3 minutes into NCAA 07, after screwing them down tight, the problem went away. But what happened was after freezing it went back to the 3rol, but then when I kicked it back on after turning it off(when it had the 3rol) it booted back up into green, and i was able to play the game, but if what your saying is true then it because the xbox had been on for a few minutes and it wasnt "cold" still is it logical that the 3rols came back? Even if for a second.

[booker]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ May 2 2007, 10:06 PM)

If you are getting lock up 5-10 mins in, then it's heat related meaning you are only 'just' pressing the contact (when cold).  When the chip expands, it breaks the contact and bang you get a freeze.  Either improve the cooling so it doesn't get as hot, or increase the pressure on the bolts and/or decrease the number of 'safety' washers.    You don't even need to do it across all 4 corners - you may find that by just cranking up one corner, you solve the problem.

Exactly This is why i´m really thinking of taking 1 Washer from the equation.. but then i´m afraid if 1 wash is too thin or too risky of breaking the motherboard/cpu/gpu ?

This is why i want to ask you..

My washers are 1mm thin.. right now i have 2washers. (1 nylon and the other flat metal). Should i leave the Nylon only?

a bit more information, maybe it will help you to help me ...  this happened after a few long days of gaming.. as i said before, it last for 1 week without problems, but , after 1 week i got the freezing after 2 or 4 min into the game. If i can play 10 or 20 min without freezing then i´m able to play all day long... but those first 4-10 minutes are key.

What do you think i should do?

[SnufftheCrimeDog]

QUOTE(booker @ May 2 2007, 06:13 PM)

Exactly This is why i´m really thinking of taking 1 Washer from the equation.. but then i´m afraid if 1 wash is too thin or too risky of breaking the motherboard/cpu/gpu ?

This is why i want to ask you..

My washers are 1mm thin.. right now i have 2washers. (1 nylon and the other flat metal). Should i leave the Nylon only?

a bit more information, maybe it will help you to help me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)...  this happened after a few long days of gaming.. as i said before, it last for 1 week without problems, but , after 1 week i got the freezing after 2 or 4 min into the game. If i can play 10 or 20 min without freezing then i´m able to play all day long... but those first 4-10 minutes are key.

What do you think i should do?

Booker, I really dont think your problem is washer related. Keep as many washer under there that your system allows, they shouldnt be causing your problem with the freezing, in fact the only problem they would cause is preventing it from making contact with the GPU/CPU. So my opinion for you my friend is try this fix out, because as I said when I was trying to help you PM, Lawdawgs fix is the same principal as RBJTechs, but we are essentially clamping the bolts using a lock nut. Your is only secured by the threads of the existing M5 screws, and this system vibrates a good amount so it possible those screws are loosening ever so slightly, and loosing a good connection with the GPU probably hence your freezing. Im not trashing Lawdawgs fix in anyway, but RBJTech involves clamping via the metal case which is much more stable then Lawdawgs. RBJTech makes alot of sense...any small flaw in how the heatsink is sitting can cause a freeze.

[booker]

QUOTE(SnufftheCrimeDog @ May 3 2007, 02:59 AM)

Booker, I really dont think your problem is washer related. Keep as many washer under there that your system allows, they shouldnt be causing your problem with the freezing, in fact the only problem they would cause is preventing it from making contact with the GPU/CPU. So my opinion for you my friend is try this fix out, because as I said when I was trying to help you PM, Lawdawgs fix is the same principal as RBJTechs, but we are essentially clamping the bolts using a lock nut. Your is only secured by the threads of the existing M5 screws, and this system vibrates a good amount so it possible those screws are loosening ever so slightly, and loosing a good connection with the GPU probably hence your freezing. Im not trashing Lawdawgs fix in anyway, but RBJTech involves clamping via the metal case which is much more stable then Lawdawgs. RBJTech makes alot of sense...any small flaw in how the heatsink is sitting can cause a freeze.

Ok... what i´ll do is, the next time it freeze i´ll just re tight the screws and i´ll try that...If that fix it, i may switch to the rbjtech. But i think.. i may be wrong though, but the first time it froze after a week of playing the system, i think... again i may be wrong, but i don´t think the screws were that "loose" when i opened the 360.
It make sense, because it last for 1 week more or less and then it start freezing again, no 3rl, just freezing..
Any other "theory" if the thightening don´t work?

Again i´ll keep an eye on that the next time it freeze.

Thanks for the help.

[SnufftheCrimeDog]

The looseness may not even be noticeable, but it may be enough to cause a bad connection, a way you could test it is if every time it freezes going back in tightening them, and seeing if it make s difference. I would be positive. You got it working which means it fixable it just isolating the problem and fixing it. I would focus more on the GPU then the CPU seeing as it graphical errors.

[booker]

QUOTE(SnufftheCrimeDog @ May 3 2007, 03:55 AM)

The looseness may not even be noticeable, but it may be enough to cause a bad connection, a way you could test it is if every time it freezes going back in tightening them, and seeing if it make s difference. I would be positive. You got it working which means it fixable it just isolating the problem and fixing it. I would focus more on the GPU then the CPU seeing as it graphical errors.

SnufftheCrimeDog,
First, thanks for all your feedback and advice, i really appreciate

I´ll do that... when the system freeze again, i´ll re tight the bolts and i´ll check if that fix it.. if it fix, i´m defniatly trying the Rbjtech method. It would be great to isolate the problem , i think that is the hardest part... once i know what the problem is, fixing it, will be a LOT EASIER.

[SnufftheCrimeDog]

QUOTE(booker @ May 2 2007, 11:56 PM)

SnufftheCrimeDog,
First, thanks for all your feedback and advice, i really appreciate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I´ll do that... when the system freeze again, i´ll re tight the bolts and i´ll check if that fix it.. if it fix, i´m defniatly trying the Rbjtech method. It would be great to isolate the problem , i think that is the hardest part... once i know what the problem is, fixing it, will be a LOT EASIER.

I commented on you post on one of the other threads. Im happy to help booker, I think you should deffinetly give RBJTechs tut a whirl....and for the record, no RBJTech and I are not close personal buddies. I am simply pointing out what has worked for me, and expressing my ideas.

[booker]

QUOTE(SnufftheCrimeDog @ May 3 2007, 05:14 AM)

I commented on you post on one of the other threads. Im happy to help booker, I think you should deffinetly give RBJTechs tut a whirl....and for the record, no RBJTech and I are not close personal buddies. I am simply pointing out what has worked for me, and expressing my ideas.

THanks i just read your post.. and i´m definatly trying this method.. since matt method gave me good results but after a week of gaming my system start freezing after  2 to 5 min into the game..

Now i need some help, Im not from the US so buying the "parts" will be a bit harder.. This are the common Washers in my country.. of course they have different names...

But... maybe you or someone can help me to find the
Flat Washer ( i guess any metal washer will do).
Nylon washer ( is called the same in my country)
Spring washer (this is the problem ... could somone point me in the link below what washer is the sping washer? I guess we are looking the "Grower" type... but wich one?


http://www.gatatorni.../arandelas.html

The rest i think i´ll be able to find it by myself...  

Thanks again..i know i could be a pain in the ass... but again it would be too good to be true to fix my 360...

Thanks again for the help!

[rabbitstroker]

As the tut goes, 3red lights are now greenlights of life, same bits from b+q, no reheating just the x-clamp mod and its all working here:)
THANKS GUYS!!

[booker]

Today i´ll try to buy the parts,
I have a few questions.. again, some of you will think my question don´t make sense but remember i´m not from US/UK so we have different names for each part.

Machine Screws (4mm x 20mm) + Nuts (3mm thick)
these are 2cm long?

Spring Washer (4mm)
how thick they should be?

Flat Washer (4mm) – 0.71mm thick
what material?

Nylon Lock Nut (4mm)
What is the difference between Nylon lock nut and Lock nut? I used google but it didn´t help.. it just show me lock nuts...

what is the point of the sprin washer over the HS.. i though the idea was to use it between the mobo and the heatsink so the HSwill have more movement...

One more thing.. i don´t want to drill the GPU HS, because if this don´t work i can go back to the Matt´s method. Can i use a "smaller Screw ?

Thanks

[blankaz]

Hey guys i just did the tutorial .. reached to the final step, turned on the 360 and boom 2 lights of overheating appear right after i turn on the console , any ideas ?