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[SnufftheCrimeDog]

QUOTE(lawdawg0931 @ Apr 24 2007, 10:44 PM)

I'd be real careful in doing this, as the two washers under the heatsinks usually provide two functions:
1. allows a little play (rocking back & forth) of the heatsink - ensuring that the h/s is on the CPU/GPU & not the washers, but more importantly
2. It gives you something to catch you from overtightening the lock nuts. If you tighten down (without any washers) you can do severe damage. Just be very careful.

Thats a good point Lawdawg, and I understand the function of the washer completely seeing as my fixed xbox 360 is verbatim to RBJTechs tutorial. I was very careful, as soon as I felt the nut become snug I stopped, and that when the green lights came on.  (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . Now, my question is, I know this is risky seeing as your tightening the heatsink to the MB, and it can be snapped, but in worse case scenario, oh say when hardware store owners throw a few random sized washer in a zip-lock bag, would this be an o.k. method to repeat if you did not have the parts required. By "o.K" i mean lasting fix.

[svincent]

Thanks RBJtech's,  your method has worked fine for me    

I'm yet to put it thru a serious workout, but i'm happy just to get to the dashboard  

Big up - SV  

[lukebe]

I applied RBJ's method approx 2 weeks ago and added my complete success vote to the poll.
Problem is I've just started experiencing locks up today. I've had about 5 where the image on screen is just stationary and nothing responds.

To get the full picture, I started experiencing locks up for months before the 3 red rings. When I first finished RBJ's I had only the mother board sitting in the housing and put the RF plate on. Plugged it in and still had the 3 rings.
I proceeded to bolt the board in properly and it was pulling down on the corners as I screwed it firmly. I didn't like it but when I fired it up it all worked and has been until today. So I didn't overheat the system after the mod.
For the record I applied fresh thermal paste, did the shroud mod along, put in whisper fans, and whacked a heat sink on the southbridge and 2 RAM chips (did nothing to the ones under the GPU heat sink).

Today is not winter but it is abnormally cold.
As I see it I have a few options:
1. Tighten the GPU heat sink. The box does not give the 2 rings when locking up but I understand the heat senesor is only on the CPU heat sink. As RBJ said, the GPU heat sink fins get in the way a bit when tightening so POSSIBLY dodgy but I'm sure the CPU is good. Will this achieve anything in my case? I got a lock up when the system was cold so dont think this will do anything to help.
2. Let the xbox overheat by disconnecting the fans to let the board flex. But I dont want to stress or do anything I dont have to incase it makes it worse.
3. Put thermal pads under the GPU on the other RAM chips. But I've dont a fair bit to make the system run pretty cool and I'm sure it's heaps better now.

I think 2 would be my best bet. Any comments on what would be useful to do or is pointless to try?

[RBJTech]

QUOTE(lukebe @ Apr 25 2007, 07:08 AM)

...I think 2 would be my best bet. Any comments on what would be useful to do or is pointless to try?

Take out the DVD drive and swing it 90 degrees - support it properly, then get a normal 80mm fan (or whatever you can find) and rig it up to a supply and direcly cool the GPU.

If locking up stops when playing a game, then the thermal expansion on the GPU is still breaking the BGU solder joint, causing the lock up. (it's ok when it's cold - thus no 3ROL)

2 solutions are to re-do the X-clamp replacement - changing the number of washers which may work, or increase the GPU cooling somehow - sounds like the only method you have left if to increase the fan speed on the GPU.

RAM heat may be the problem but try the above first to eliminate it ...

[chucksd]

Well,
After quite a bit of time with no probs the #$%# 3ROL is back.  I checked it out and tightened up the H/S's and the console came back up but went green on me and back to the 3 rol.  Not sure what to think as it had been working fine for quite awhile.  
Chucksd

[SnufftheCrimeDog]

Well Im thoroughly confused. I've posted what has happened with this xbox 360 for the last few days. So heres what I've done from start to right now, as of right now we have a working xbox 360, but it been tempermental. Once I finally opened the xbox and got everything squared away, I did every step placed 3 washer on each leg like RBJtechs tut says, could only fit washer, spring washer, and lock nut. After starting it up 2 blinking lights(bad contact between GPU or CPU and there respective heatsinks. Moved down to two washer one each screw, put it all back together 2 blinking lights again...confused, I move down to 1 washer on each screw. 3rols...let it overheat. Start it back up, 3rols, error code 0020=No thermal pads on Gpu memories then. Hit the hay for that night, next day redid everything, went back to three washer, kept getting 2rols, 2 washer 2rols, then I got fed up and went to no washer yesterday. Worked for a little while. Went back to play it later that night 2rols. A this point I was pretty fed up. I went back to 1 washer on each screw, thermal pads, on gpu memory, and lose screws test...boots up into 2rols. Let it sit overnight woke up this morning and it worked. Happy, with that I went to my classes, when I came back the xbox was still working but I was baffled by why it didnt work last night but worked this morning. Id love and answer for that if anyone got one. So I screwed around with the screws tightening and and loosening them. I was able to to get the xbox 360 to overheat and boot perfectly at will, then I got stuck with the 2rols at boot again...looked at the heatsinks noticed one leg of the CPU not resting on the washer tightened it down, boots up beautifully. Turn on t.v. boot up system blocky picture 3rols, error code 0102...back to the drawing board overheated it tightened down the sinks, bingo boot, picture. Now here are the conclusions I made. 1.) The "hardware experts" at the store I went to probably gave me every sized washer except .70 ones 2.) When I initially got the 0020 error putting on the thermal pads over the Ram near the GPU probably would have resolved that should have done that from the get go. Finally 3.) Never travel without your dremel (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . The one thing I would like an answer to is why did the 360 not work last night after placing the washers on, but it worked today when I woke up? and hopefully you guys can decipher my garble (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by SnufftheCrimeDog: Apr 25 2007, 09:22 PM

[jaychand77]

Is the air from the back of the fans normally really hot or?

[booker]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Apr 25 2007, 11:34 AM)

Take out the DVD drive and swing it 90 degrees - support it properly, then get a normal 80mm fan (or whatever you can find) and rig it up to a supply and direcly cool the GPU.

If locking up stops when playing a game, then the thermal expansion on the GPU is still breaking the BGU solder joint, causing the lock up. (it's ok when it's cold - thus no 3ROL)

2 solutions are to re-do the X-clamp replacement - changing the number of washers which may work, or increase the GPU cooling somehow - sounds like the only method you have left if to increase the fan speed on the GPU.

RAM heat may be the problem but try the above first to eliminate it ...

maybe this is not a permanent fix after all ?...

[RBJTech]

There is no right or wrong answer to the 'fix's here (either one) - each case will likely be totally different - what works for somebody may not work for you.  

At the end of the day - all we are doing is pressing a cold solder joint(s) together - this may be by pressing the chip onto the board (by tightening the h/s down) or loosening the board (by removing the X clamps).  

The solder joint is about 0.5mm across - ie VERY susceptible to thermal movement, the only proper fix is a reball and then reflow.  However, depending on the severity of the original failure and your perseverence, it looks like the vast majority of the fix's are positive.

[waxx9299]

i think both lawdawg's and rbj's method is promising..

ive been trying to figure out the best fix... so far the longest i did was 4 months before it re 3RLed..(but not with their method)

the board flexing theory is the most logical theory, and although here in my side of the planet, we dont have a lowes or a home depot. i get my parts from a local hardware store..so the best way to get the proper parts for me is either have a friend in the USA send me samples of flat and nylon washers.. the bolts i have no problem... actually i can post pictures of the type of bolts im using and they fit just right with the thread of the cpu and the gpu...

now my only problem is computing the actual height of the mobo and the cpu/gpu die where the heatsink make contact... anybody of you have an idea?

(IMG:http://farm1.static.flickr.com/225/473151525_338a418aea_o.gif)

and here's a photo of the bolts and spring washer that i have.. i get them cheap..very cheap

(IMG:http://farm1.static.flickr.com/220/473151529_7972416e52.jpg)

This post has been edited by waxx9299: Apr 26 2007, 04:29 AM

[RBJTech]

.. by using the size of the nuts and washers you can deduce the values...

case to board = (3mm nut height + 1 washer) = ~3.7mm
board to CPU/GPU case = 2 x 0.7mm = ~1.4mm

[langnao]

For me, case to mobo = ~ 4mm

mobo to GPU = ~ 2mm (slightly more, say 2.1-2.2mm)

[Wince]

A week of pretty constant use and my 360 is going strong, no crashes what so ever, which is better than it was when it was brand new (few random freezes). I hope it lasts, but it seems to be perfect at the moment. Im happy my 3 month old box is now in working order again, fu*king microsoft.

[sirsmooth]

I think its best to do this mod before your xbox goes wrong, dont give it chance to get the 3 red lights.

Im pretty gutted hearing of all these failuers

[SnufftheCrimeDog]

QUOTE(sirsmooth @ Apr 26 2007, 02:52 PM)

I think its best to do this mod before your xbox goes wrong, dont give it chance to get the 3 red lights.

Im pretty gutted hearing of all these failuers

It's all a matter of what error you have and how to take care of it, this fix works. I'm 3 for 3 as of now. I actually had to feel my way through one xbox that was giving me a real hassle, and I had incorrect sized washers, now it working flawlessly or so I hear. I not totally disagreeing with you I would be interested in seeing how long a system that the x-clamps were removed prior to first use would last.