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[RBJTech]

QUOTE(booker @ Apr 23 2007, 03:41 AM)

Oh god.. i´m so confuse about the spring washers and flat washers.. i though the Sprign washers were rubber... and the falt washers were metal..

So basically all washers are metal?.. what are the difference between them?
Sorry i ask this commong thing, but here in muy country they are called different and i need to know this before purchasing.

Use a rubber washer in place of the spring washer / wave washer if you wish - it will provide a similiar result but try and use a spring washer if you can.

We need to allow a small amount of thermal movement (when the chip and h/s get hot - they expand - only a fraction of a mm, but nevertheless, we need to allow for this expansion).  A rubber washer will allow this movement (as does a spring washer) but in addation, the spring washer always keeps constant pressure pressed down on the h/s - a rubber washer will do this to some extent but it will not be as good as a spring washer.

I hope this helps..

[booker]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Apr 23 2007, 09:51 AM)

Use a rubber washer in place of the spring washer / wave washer if you wish - it will provide a similiar result but try and use a spring washer if you can.

We need to allow a small amount of thermal movement (when the chip and h/s get hot - they expand - only a fraction of a mm, but nevertheless, we need to allow for this expansion).  A rubber washer will allow this movement (as does a spring washer) but in addation, the spring washer always keeps constant pressure pressed down on the h/s - a rubber washer will do this to some extent but it will not be as good as a spring washer.

I hope this helps..

could you describe the spring washer?

[benfinkel]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Apr 23 2007, 09:51 AM)

Use a rubber washer in place of the spring washer / wave washer if you wish - it will provide a similiar result but try and use a spring washer if you can.

We need to allow a small amount of thermal movement (when the chip and h/s get hot - they expand - only a fraction of a mm, but nevertheless, we need to allow for this expansion).  A rubber washer will allow this movement (as does a spring washer) but in addation, the spring washer always keeps constant pressure pressed down on the h/s - a rubber washer will do this to some extent but it will not be as good as a spring washer.

I hope this helps..

The spring washer or wave lock washer (American name) is metal but it's sort of "warped" so that it applies constant pressure.  When you get to the parts store and start looking through what they have you'll seem them and understand.  

If you screw down the nuts you'll flatten the wave lock washer and it will be no different than a normal washer, but with only half-pressure from the nut it's an effective way to get force onto the heat sink with over tightening the nut.

From my earlier post...

QUOTE(benfinkel @ Apr 22 2007, 05:50 PM)

The spring washers I used looked like this:

(IMG:http://www.mgcycle.com/95129130.JPG)

[nettwerk]

Question, did your xbox have the 3 ROD with the xclamps then after you did this fix it went away when you first started it up? Did you let it overheat to fix the solder balls on the bottom of the gpu/cpu?

[intention]

i had the 3 red lights the first few times i turned it on. i was anxious to see the results.
i was a bit disappointed after that. turned it on and off a couple times, no good.
i remembered reading that i should leave it on without the fans connected for a min or two.
i did this... still no good

i figured i was screwed at this point so i started to put things back together to clean up my mess. i put the fans back in, connected the dvd drive, and cleaned up the rest of my mess.

decided to give it one more try with everything connected.

IT WORKED!  


- so if at first your still receiving red lights, try connecting everything and give it another try.
worked for me.

Thanks RBJtech, you saved me a few hundred bucks!  

[SnufftheCrimeDog]

Ok....I need some advice. I've done this fix before, and it did prove to work. Now I'm out staying with my buddy in Pennsylvania, and he has a broken xbox 360(error code 0102) I don't necessarily have all the tools I had at home when I preformed the fix, for example my dremel tool. I went through step by step and did everything verbatim to RBJTechs tut, like I did the first time. The only thing that concerned me was that since I couldn't shave the GPU sink down I can't get the two flat washer and spring washer on top of the GPU sink, without failing to get the lock nut on. So instead I took one flat washer out. So then I had 3 Flat Washer, GPU, GPU heatsink, spring washer, flat washer, lock nut( I need to know if 1.) Thats alright that I took that washer out, and 2.) would that be the right order in that circumstance)
So I got it all together tested it...2 red lights. I never got that before, but I noticed this is an overheating error, which cause your xbox 360 not to function at all, so the chips dont heat up. So I took one washer out under each heatsink, I noticed that when I took each heatsink off the new thermal pasted that I had put on the chips did not make much contact with the 'sinks, that made me ponder a little. So I tried 2 flat washers underneath the heatsinks. Still 2 red light error. Examined the heatsinks again no paste on the 'sinks. So I went down to one flat washer underneath the 'sinks. Bam, 3rols heatsinks started to warm up beautifully. So I'm thinking Im a genius. Let it go from 3rols to 2rols, showing that it overheating and I should turn it off. I do so,  and prepare to see the look on my friend face when I show him his 360 is fixed....Not that case. Now I'm getting Error Code 0020. The heatsinks warm up like they should now, what can I do to get rid of this error. Mind you I have really tightened down those bolts pretty good, so I don't think it that I need some advice, thanks guys.

[RBJTech]

QUOTE(SnufftheCrimeDog @ Apr 24 2007, 11:54 AM)

.... so I don't think it that I need some advice, thanks guys.

..with only 1 washer inbetween the h/s and board, then you may be bending things too much if you are doing it up tight     The sweet spot seems to be 1.5mm (2 x 0.7mm washers)

It's weird that you said with 2 washers you couldn't get the die to touch the h/s - how thick are the washers you are using ?  

Did you check the thickness of the nut&washer UNDER the board - is it level with the main chassis standoffs ?  ie do all the ports (AV connector etc) line up nicely without having to screw it down ?

[sharnock]

RBJTech, first of all thank you so much for making a tutorial of the X-Clamp replacement method, i tried your method and it works fine. I solved the 3ROLs but then after about 3 minutes of gaming, the 2 ROLs suddenly appeared. What should i do now to solve it?

Thank you so much again!

[cienmey]

RBJTech, I try your method after i unsuccessfully using Lawdag method. I try to find all the part  you mentioned, but i only got washer with 1 mm thick. So i place 2 washer between h/s and mobo. After all set, my xbox got back  but only 3 second it become 2ROL. I shut down thightened the lock nut, i power it back but only last 3 seconds and come back to 2ROL....    

Any suggestion??
Thanks in advance.....

[nettwerk]

And it.... WORKS! my launch xbox is back

Hardest part was finding the parts at lowes.. seems like everyone is trying this fix in my area because they have everything but these parts lol.. I found enuff metric supplies to get started (washers, spring washers) but went with the 8-32x1 bolts (they are in a green bag and come with the 11/32 nutts - Maquina brand - 8 bolts) 8-32 lock washers and #10 washers work fine too. (this is at lowes again)

My GPU and CPU only took 2 washers underneath, 3 washers was too high and it didnt let the heatsinks touch the chip die.

RBJ's way of cutting the gpu heatsink works the best. you need to cut a line behind the bolt area and then you can wiggle the short fins off with a pair of needle nose pliers. I was trying to cut them with wire cutters but just kept making a mess lol.

At first startup I had 3 ROL and a blinking green light. apparently you need to dvd drive hooked up or it will do this. When I finished cussing and figured that out it started right up but I let it overheat for about a 1min then while it cooled off I carefully gave the lock nutts one more quarter turn for good luck and reassembled the fan and fan duct and its all gravy now  

Games work fine so far and now can feel better knowing that I might never see 3 ROD on this console for a long time. Now too retry on the other box that failed  

[RBJTech]

If anybody is getting 2 red lights then the die is not touching the h/s properly - simply take out washers until it does.  As I've said before - the thickness you want is about 1.5-1.7 mm - so 2 x 0.71mm washers should be fine - 3 may be too much.

** ONCE DONE UP SEMI TIGHT - UNDO IT AGAIN AND LOOK AT THE H/S - IF IT HAS A FRESH IMPRINT OF THERMAL PASTE (assuming you cleaned off the old stuff.. ) THEN YOU'RE GOOD - IF IT DOESN'T THEN YOU NEED TO REMOVE SOME WASHERS .. **

[nettwerk]

Wow just wow.. Just fixed my brother in laws xbox from left over parts it semi worked with lawdawgs method last weekend but kept freezing up in games.

NOBODY had spring washers though and lowes was out of course, so I substituted a lock washer smashed in between 2 flat washers on this one. Seems to work ok and they can be changed later on if need be.

Another big thanks!

I now invite my other non modded xbox to break  

[SnufftheCrimeDog]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Apr 24 2007, 08:01 AM)

..with only 1 washer inbetween the h/s and board, then you may be bending things too much if you are doing it up tight  (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)   The sweet spot seems to be 1.5mm (2 x 0.7mm washers)

It's weird that you said with 2 washers you couldn't get the die to touch the h/s - how thick are the washers you are using ?  

Did you check the thickness of the nut&washer UNDER the board - is it level with the main chassis standoffs ?  ie do all the ports (AV connector etc) line up nicely without having to screw it down ?

Lol, I need to check my grammar...I meant I DO need advice I'm going into to play with some more, but on top of the sink, if I take out a flat washer, should it be GPU heatsink, flat washer spring washer,and lock nut or GPU sink,  spring washer, flat washer, lock nut?

Thanks for the help everyone.

[SnufftheCrimeDog]

Huh....Well I fixed it.  Heres the thing. I redid everything. I went down to the the case, the washers were uneven some were bigger then others.....Let me start off from the beginning my buddy lives in rural suburb in Pennsylvania, they don't really have any Lowes nearby so we went to the local hardware store. When I said I needed a 0.71 flat washer they looked at me funny and threw a bunch of small flat washer into a bag and gave it to me...case being I got parts that were probably semi-close, but not exact parts need to follow the guide. So I had been dinging around with the xbox for a while eventually like I said I went down to the case put washers of the same size on each screw then put on a nut. Put the board on everything from there was going smoothly, until I threw on the washers underneath the sink every time I booted up the xbox, I would get 2 red lights, showing that the board was not making contact with either the GPU or CPU. So I was pretty fed up working for now 3 days on this xbox. I took what I had and used common sense(I dont have much ) Since I kept getting the 2rols I decided to hell with it and got rid of all the washer under the heatsinks, I looked at RBJtechs tut, and determined that I didnt have enough room to put a washer, spring washer, another washer, and a lock nut on top of the gpu heatsink. So I ended up just putting on a washer and lock nut on top of the gpu. Did the same for the the cpu. Tightened up all the nuts. Fired it up expecting the thing to blow up, and next thing you know I watching four green lights fire up. Now I really like to hear peoples ideas about this I'm pretty baffled. I mean I look at this as being a combination of RBJtechs and Lawdawgs tutorials.

[lawdawg0931]

QUOTE(SnufftheCrimeDog @ Apr 24 2007, 07:29 PM)

I decided to hell with it and got rid of all the washer under the heatsinks

I'd be real careful in doing this, as the two washers under the heatsinks usually provide two functions:
1. allows a little play (rocking back & forth) of the heatsink - ensuring that the h/s is on the CPU/GPU & not the washers, but more importantly
2. It gives you something to catch you from overtightening the lock nuts. If you tighten down (without any washers) you can do severe damage. Just be very careful.