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[SnufftheCrimeDog]

QUOTE(grim_d @ May 5 2007, 05:10 AM)

have tried various tightening and loosening combinations with no luck, with the 1 washer the bolts were so tight i feared for the mobo/die
 

That was the only way I could get my friends to work. Now keep in mind I always lock down the bolts as tight as they can go no problems so far with them, but I'm biting my tongue so nothing bad does happen. RBJTech provided a nice diagram for us that showed the comparison of washer to downward flex. Now this is a good diagram, but the way he set it up it was a little over-exaggerated(he did mention this though), it makes it look with one washer the boards about to cave in, while the board is actually flexing one washer will make a difference and will prevent the board from having any problems. Anyway I see alot of people scared to go really tight when tightening the bolts, which is good because u can actually over-tighten it and break the board, but to put this into perspective....you would really have to try to do that. As for the fact that you got 0020 with one washer that could be possibly lack of thermal paster or thermals pads on the 4 RAM chips on the bottom of the board. I cant promise you the red lights will not come back, but I would be optimistic.

[grim_d]

QUOTE(SnufftheCrimeDog @ May 5 2007, 07:16 PM)

That was the only way I could get my friends to work. Now keep in mind I always lock down the bolts as tight as they can go no problems so far with them, but I'm biting my tongue so nothing bad does happen. RBJTech provided a nice diagram for us that showed the comparison of washer to downward flex. Now this is a good diagram, but the way he set it up it was a little over-exaggerated(he did mention this though), it makes it look with one washer the boards about to cave in, while the board is actually flexing one washer will make a difference and will prevent the board from having any problems. Anyway I see alot of people scared to go really tight when tightening the bolts, which is good because u can actually over-tighten it and break the board, but to put this into perspective....you would really have to try to do that. As for the fact that you got 0020 with one washer that could be possibly lack of thermal paster or thermals pads on the 4 RAM chips on the bottom of the board. I cant promise you the red lights will not come back, but I would be optimistic.

well with the one washer i had it tightened as much as i could, so yeah breaking anything would be quite a challenge.

in regards to the 0020, it only appeared with the one washer try so i could say for certain it wasnt ram related.

one thing i did notice with one washer was that when tightening down the heatsink was really pushing against a transistor on the board, which i cant imagine was very good.

ill thermally cycle it as much as i can over the next few days, i'm selling it to a buddy anyway so i mean if it fails again he can just bring it back to me, which was the plan.

[SnufftheCrimeDog]

QUOTE(grim_d @ May 5 2007, 02:31 PM)

well with the one washer i had it tightened as much as i could, so yeah breaking anything would be quite a challenge.

in regards to the 0020, it only appeared with the one washer try so i could say for certain it wasnt ram related.

one thing i did notice with one washer was that when tightening down the heatsink was really pushing against a transistor on the board, which i cant imagine was very good.

ill thermally cycle it as much as i can over the next few days, i'm selling it to a buddy anyway so i mean if it fails again he can just bring it back to me, which was the plan.

Well yea then your right, I would assume at least, I know mine did the same thing after putting one washer on, after throwing on some thermal paste on the 4 RAM chips it booted, but I dont know. The whole problem with the last one I fixed was my washer were the incorrect size, so every-time I tried to use 2 washer...well it wouldn't connect with the die, so it had to be one. Another thing with that one was that I didnt have enough rooms on the GPU for a spring washer and a flat washer so I just used a flat washer, so essentially my GPU heatsink and CPU heatsink are locked down and cant really move because that spring washer isnt there, this may prove to be a positive, again I dont really know.

[grim_d]

QUOTE(SnufftheCrimeDog @ May 5 2007, 07:39 PM)

Well yea then your right, I would assume at least, I know mine did the same thing after putting one washer on, after throwing on some thermal paste on the 4 RAM chips it booted, but I dont know. The whole problem with the last one I fixed was my washer were the incorrect size, so every-time I tried to use 2 washer...well it wouldn't connect with the die, so it had to be one. Another thing with that one was that I didnt have enough rooms on the GPU for a spring washer and a flat washer so I just used a flat washer, so essentially my GPU heatsink and CPU heatsink are locked down and cant really move because that spring washer isnt there, this may prove to be a positive, again I dont really know.

i cant imagine putting nothing but thermal paste on the chips would benifit any, makes it more of a thermal insulator, it's transferring the heat to nowhere, but if it works lol.

[SnufftheCrimeDog]

QUOTE(grim_d @ May 5 2007, 03:58 PM)

i cant imagine putting nothing but thermal paste on the chips would benifit any, makes it more of a thermal insulator, it's transferring the heat to nowhere, but if it works lol.

Unless I've got the wrong idea, the RAM chips on the bottom of the motherboard do make contact with the case(so the thermal paste in this case would transfer heat)...I mean if they didnt in anyway then I dont see what the point of the new models putting thermals pads as stock on those bottom RAM chips would do. I think in my opinion that thermal paste transfers heat better. Like I said  I could be wrong, I know I've told a few other people with this problem to give it a whirl and they reported it working but I dont know, i actually havent looked at case under those chips to see if there an imprint paste.

[TheIrishLad]

I strongly recommend lapping both the heatsinks for the CPU/GPU, they are very un-even.  After lapping my GPU/CPU the surface should be mirror-like, and should make great connection to the dies.

[RBJTech]

QUOTE(grim_d @ May 5 2007, 07:31 PM)

well with the one washer i had it tightened as much as i could, so yeah breaking anything would be quite a challenge.

in regards to the 0020, it only appeared with the one washer try so i could say for certain it wasnt ram related.

one thing i did notice with one washer was that when tightening down the heatsink was really pushing against a transistor on the board, which i cant imagine was very good.

ill thermally cycle it as much as i can over the next few days, i'm selling it to a buddy anyway so i mean if it fails again he can just bring it back to me, which was the plan.

Hi Grim - glad to see you're ebay toy turned up ...

Yea - 1 washer is not recommended - the way to press harder without using less washers is to use a shim on the die as I mentioned earlier (large thread so you're excused if you didn't read it ... )

Basically, this allows you to maintain the heatsink height, but pushes down directly on the die.  I used a piece of 1mm thick Ali 1cm x 1.5cm (covering both the main & memory die).  A bit of copper would be even better.  Obviously coat both sides in AS5 before you put it on - the compression of the bolts holds it on tight ..

To date, the box has been fine, I've now given it back and he said it's played daily without a hitch

Also just reached 11,000 hits on my website lol ... no doubt I'll be getting a call from my ISP soon  ...

I'll add a FAQ to the tutorial in the next few days highlighting some of the important points on this thread ...

All the best,

Richard.

[grim_d]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ May 6 2007, 01:02 AM)

Yea - 1 washer is not recommended - the way to press harder without using less washers is to use a shim on the die as I mentioned earlier (large thread so you're excused if you didn't read it ... )

no worries, it's working with 2 washers although i am concerned about how long since i more or less overheated it before it decided to boot, i thought about the shim (i did read about it) but 1mm aluminum sheet it not something i have lying around

The only theory i had about this is that i tightened the bolts a little more whilst the heatsinks where still hot, which is flawed in itself since metal expands when heated.

i've done a few thermal cycles on it and it's still ok but i'll pass it on to my buddy and see how he gets on, worse case scenario is having to refund his money and sell the parts, no biggie.

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Just thought i would add something for sceptical aussies out there.  I could not find 0.71mm thick washers anywhere actually got kind of a strange look from the sales rep at coventry hahaha, so i settled with the 0.8mm ones and i have been using 2 of them on the motherboard and all has been sweet for the 2 consoles i have repaired with this method (the other one was lawdawg's method).  The funny thing was the two i fixed with RBTech's method originall i did with lawdawg and they were intermittently (spelling?) giving me error 0102 and 0020... i have basically drawn my own conclusing to 0020 being something to do with the GPU and its pressure from the heatsink and/or thermal transfer capacity (whether this can be gauged by the system or not im not sure), but over tightening it was giving me 0020 everytime where as loosening/snug fit was giving me 0102.  


Question for RBTech, do you think it would be wise if one console was still freezing a bit to let it overheat as in lawdawg's method with no fans etc and then tighten her up after that in an attempt to fix a broken connected (if that's the problem)?  As one of the consoles the owner screwed with it a bit and its still freezing a bit, whether it is due to a bad connection underneath or something he did i am not sure, but originally when i completed your method it worked 100% i put a ghost recon in and loaded into the game then sat a weight on a joystick so the player would spin randomly around, i then left it for like an hour (i was around it for the first 10mins with no freeze), but when i came back it had locked up, perhaps i pushed the GPU too much initially also?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated, and RBTech your a legend!

[blackhawk444]

Does anyone know a site in the US that I can order the parts from?  I tried lowes.com but nothing came up.  Thanks alot!

[RBJTech]

QUOTE(DJ_L3ThAL @ May 6 2007, 02:22 AM)

Just thought i would add something for sceptical aussies out there.  I could not find 0.71mm thick washers anywhere actually got kind of a strange look from the sales rep at coventry hahaha, so i settled with the 0.8mm ones and i have been using 2 of them on the motherboard and all has been sweet for the 2 consoles i have repaired with this method (the other one was lawdawg's method).  The funny thing was the two i fixed with RBTech's method originall i did with lawdawg and they were intermittently (spelling?) giving me error 0102 and 0020... i have basically drawn my own conclusing to 0020 being something to do with the GPU and its pressure from the heatsink and/or thermal transfer capacity (whether this can be gauged by the system or not im not sure), but over tightening it was giving me 0020 everytime where as loosening/snug fit was giving me 0102.  
Question for RBTech, do you think it would be wise if one console was still freezing a bit to let it overheat as in lawdawg's method with no fans etc and then tighten her up after that in an attempt to fix a broken connected (if that's the problem)?  As one of the consoles the owner screwed with it a bit and its still freezing a bit, whether it is due to a bad connection underneath or something he did i am not sure, but originally when i completed your method it worked 100% i put a ghost recon in and loaded into the game then sat a weight on a joystick so the player would spin randomly around, i then left it for like an hour (i was around it for the first 10mins with no freeze), but when i came back it had locked up, perhaps i pushed the GPU too much initially also?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated, and RBTech your a legend!

Hi - I believe 'IN GAME' freezing or checkerboard is caused by the GPU heating up and with thermal expansion of 'something' (could be the board moving, BGA joint moving a fraction etc) a joint breaks and bang it freezes.

A possible solution is to cool the GPU more than normal -  I suggest that everybody does the divider cooling mod in conjunction with the X clamp removal, GPU flap is optional but will helps things too.  The 12v mod will cool the GPU obviously, the 7v mod being a good compromise on cooling/noise, do this on the GPU side only (assuming you have the divider).

PS - Tightening when hot will get it tighter, BUT remember that components contract when cooling, so you may over tighten something when it cools off .. just something to be aware of ...  

I hope this helps ...

[grim_d]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ May 6 2007, 12:32 PM)

PS - Tightening when hot will get it tighter, BUT remember that components contract when cooling, so you may over tighten something when it cools off .. just something to be aware of ...  

yeah that is true but i think with the quarter turn it should be ok, ive cycled it a few times now and played a few games with no issues so i think were ok, and this is before i've done any extra cooling mods.

[mzone]

well i think my 360 had now died  
as i just get 3 red lights, i tryed the hot air gun once again but it never worked  

also tryed just leaving the fans off untill it over heated and let it cool down still 3 red lights  

i really hope i can get it working again as it had a good dvd drive

but i think it might of just died. but im hopeing its not.

[blackhawk444]

No one knows a site that has the parts in the US?  I really need help!  Thanks.

[GTi-6]

Hİ guys, I am new to this forum and I'm glad to be  registered.

I have a launch time Xbox 360 and I have 3RLOD.

Today, I bought the parts for the RBJtech's method. I bought M4 * 20 mm machine screws. But the wierd thing is, holes of the mainboards are bigger than M4 screws and they can easily straight through. Same goes for heatsinks too. Did I bought the wrong parts? Or that's the way it should be?

Thanks...,

PS: I am sorry for my english.