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[svincent]

Thanks Lukebe,
thanks for your added info, I'm in AUS as well, I will be attempting the fix soon on my MS28 as last night i got the dreaded 3RLOD error code 0102.  I have a Jaycar just down the road too..

I will of course post after I have given it a go.

SV

[jimbobjim]

I've done the mod, coupled with the heatgun fix on two red light consoles this week and both now work fine.

To me it really does look like the x clamps are the main culprit of the failiures. I imagine the only reason M$ have left them in is because replacing them would be admitting it was all their fault. I feel for the people who've paid big money to have their console repaired by M$, only to have it returned with the motherboard bending clamps still in place.

I know this is all speculation at the mo', but to me this fix looks really promising.

Thank you.

[DaniloMQ]

I got two x360 with error 0110 that i cant fix with this...

Maybe heating the memory? anyone?

[soul-assassin]

QUOTE(DaniloMQ @ Apr 19 2007, 06:30 PM)

I got two x360 with error 0110 that i cant fix with this...

Maybe heating the memory? anyone?

I had that same error, this fix worked for me.  I used the first method posted by lawdawg.

[DaniloMQ]

Today a customer brought back the first x360 with clamp mod to get 3rl again....

Error 0102 again

I opened and realized that some of the case screws that attach the motherboard to it (not the 6 long screws) were loose

I used the same screw but one size ticker and worked fine, got all motherboard pretty tight to the case and working fine

Some pics of the screw that i used

[RichMoney]

Hello all. I did this fix (lawdogs, not RBJtech) plus RBJtechs coolingmods (the fan shroud, putting thermal padding on the two RAM chips under the GPU h/s and the four under the mobo, and placed small h/s on the two top side RAM chips and south and north bridge) and all was fine for a couple days but now when playing Saints Row (mostly when theres alot of action) it freezes after about 15 mins. It doesn't freeze when playing world series poker though. So i'm wondering if maybe that would mean that I did something wrong possibly with the GPU part of the mod or is that maybe a RAM chip issue?

The 5m screws I used weren't the flat "head" style but the height of the "head" looked the same to me, but since the height from the mobo to the metal cage was thicker than my thermal padding I had to use two layers on all four bottom side RAM chips. Is that a no-no?

And thanks for your devoted time to the xbox scene to everyone, without you i'd still be playing the regular xbox...haha....not that it's bad but I just like the high-def gaming.

[ferrari_rulz_02]

QUOTE(DaniloMQ @ Apr 20 2007, 11:30 AM)

I got two x360 with error 0110 that i cant fix with this...

Maybe heating the memory? anyone?

quite possibly. try adding some small heat sinks to the memory chips.

if, however, this error comes up straight away, the chips may not be sitting properly on the board.....which is not good

[pimpmaul69]

QUOTE(jimbobjim @ Apr 20 2007, 12:28 AM)

I've done the mod, coupled with the heatgun fix on two red light consoles this week and both now work fine.

To me it really does look like the x clamps are the main culprit of the failiures. I imagine the only reason M$ have left them in is because replacing them would be admitting it was all their fault. I feel for the people who've paid big money to have their console repaired by M$, only to have it returned with the motherboard bending clamps still in place.

I know this is all speculation at the mo', but to me this fix looks really promising.

Thank you.

i made an observation that made it a fact that the x-clamps are faulty.. i did this mod with the nylon and metal washers.. but only on the top side.. now the problem was that i had to buy more bolts and all home depot had was hex head ones.. now i had matched them up to the x-clamp bolt and the part where the x-clamp clips to the part that would screw to the case and the hex head was smaller than that part, but when i put it back in it bowed the board really bad... wich means one thing, when you put it in with the x-clamps it pushes pressure on it and loosens the pressure from the cpu/gpu and seperates the processors from the heatsinks... personally i have more than enough evidence to believe that a heatgun followed by replacing the x-clamps with what was listed as parts on first post is a permanent fix.. honestly i dont think the board warping is really a problem except that the x-clamps seperate the processors and heatsinks about 2 millimeters wich gives the processor room to lift... now on the other hand i see the new apoxy on the elites is a bad idea and here is why i think that... seperating the processors from the heatsink for long periods of time can cause mass damage to the processors from overheating.. and our saving grace was the solder balls breaking before the processors did.. but imo the nylon and metal screws are unneccessary on the bottom side of where the machined head is

[fahrenheit]

QUOTE(pimpmaul69 @ Apr 20 2007, 04:54 PM)

honestly i dont think the board warping is really a problem except that the x-clamps seperate the processors and heatsinks about 2 millimeters wich gives the processor room to lift...

In my observations, the X-clamps once removed are compromised. You need to apply alot of pressure to remove them and reattach them and they don't seem to go back aswell as they were from stock state. Your observations have come after you've removed and reattached them.

A 2mm seperation of heatsink from processors would cause overheating and shutdown.
People experience failure after months of perfect operation simply because thermal cycling causing board warp pushes and pulls the BGA chips to breaking point. The X-Clamps are certainly part of the problem that allows this to occur more readily but I don't agree with your assessment of what is happening. If the board was of better quality ie. more rigid and less susseptible to warp, the X-Clamps would suffice as is.

The boards do warp and thats the problem that we always come back to. If that problem goes away, then all of the other things that aren't quite up to scratch, like the excessive heat and the mounting become less problematic.

Amazing what a little bit of heat can do to poor quality PCB - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQgLBD3F6Bg

[RBJTech]

QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Apr 20 2007, 10:20 AM)

Amazing what a little bit of heat can do to poor quality PCB -

.. it's just science - heat the copper tracks rapidly with a heatgun and just like a bimetalic strip, the copper expands quicker than the fibreglass and it bends ... no big deal.  Heat both sides equally (like you're supposed to) and it won;t....

[fahrenheit]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Apr 21 2007, 12:26 AM)

.. it's just science - heat the copper tracks rapidly with a heatgun and just like a bimetalic strip, the copper expands quicker than the fibreglass and it bends ... no big deal.  Heat both sides equally (like you're supposed to) and it won;t....

But the question is, can the PCB used to construct the 360 mainboards withstand the thermal cycles that it is subjected to? I don't think so. Its cheap and its not fit for purpose. Surely you've seen how wavy the boards are with your own eyes? Good PC mainboards don't smack of the cheapness of these things.

If it was of better manufacturing quality, we wouldn't be having this debate.

[pimpmaul69]

sure heating one side of the board with a 1000 degree heatgun will cause that... my cpu/gpu dont run that hot..do yours?? and i didnt say it happened after i took it apart i said i put a bolt with a smaller head than the bolt originally in it (as far as what part sticks out the bottom side) and it caused it to bow horribly wich proves the x-clamp design would push the heatsink out to prevent bowing.. and have you seen how thick the old thermal paste is... when you do the bolts on the heatsinks the processors and heatsinks get so close together that the thermal paste is a really really thin layer.. also once it is bolted together you are not heating the entire board when it is playing and the 2 inch or so by 2 inch or so spaces that are under about 150 degrees will not warp as much.. an example: take a 2 inch long piece of 1x4 and a 12 inch long piece of 1x4 and tell me wich one bends easier

[lawdawg0931]

QUOTE(pimpmaul69 @ Apr 20 2007, 12:23 PM)

an example: take a 2 inch long piece of 1x4 and a 12 inch long piece of 1x4 and tell me wich one bends easier

That's not really the point...we're not talking about major flexing. We're talking about the most minut amount of flexing - but enough to comprimise the connections. There's too many people benefitting from this replacement. I don't think anybody is stating that X clamps are "THE" problem...but they definitely contribute to the red lights & freezing. As far as the h/s being pulled away from the chip, that's not at all possible with the replacement tutorials as is. If anything, this would prevent any gap that might have existed with the warping from the clamps.

Unless I'm mis-interpretting what you're saying....

[pimpmaul69]

QUOTE(lawdawg0931 @ Apr 20 2007, 07:20 PM)

That's not really the point...we're not talking about major flexing. We're talking about the most minut amount of flexing - but enough to comprimise the connections. There's too many people benefitting from this replacement. I don't think anybody is stating that X clamps are "THE" problem...but they definitely contribute to the red lights & freezing. As far as the h/s being pulled away from the chip, that's not at all possible with the replacement tutorials as is. If anything, this would prevent any gap that might have existed with the warping from the clamps.

Unless I'm mis-interpretting what you're saying....

yes you mis-interpereted it... i said the x-clamps cause this.. and i was pointing out that that video was completely a useless point.. i can make any board do that warping when suspended in air and applying 1000 degrees to it.. and yes i think their is possible board warping problems with the x-clamps because the heatsink doesnt fit snug by any means.. i was saying that the new bolts fix all that

[brywalker]

QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Apr 20 2007, 10:20 AM)

Amazing what a little bit of heat can do to poor quality PCB -

That is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. Those chips never see over 110C. If they did, they would fail.

OF COURSE a 1000F will make the board bend. Throw a PC motherboard on there and it will do the same thing.