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Author Topic: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!  (Read 1416 times)

Mr.Chiaroscuro

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #75 on: March 15, 2007, 08:34:00 AM »

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Mar 15 2007, 05:23 AM) *

blink.gif WHAT !  blink.gif  - are you suggesting the heat from the 360 memory melts and reflows ...  laugh.gif (didn't you just say they don;t even get hot ... ?)

Sorry - this is 100% a 'bend the board' fix ... bigg92 - your cuts are just fine and if it's pushing the board up then it ain't gonna work regardless of how smooth your cuts are ...



No, I am not impling that. What I am saying is that the problem is not exactly related to the board flexing, it is related to how the board expands while warming up/cooling down which affects the memories joints. I believe the joints becomes weaker or crack. We are not saying a big crack, but small displacements can cause the contact to loose.

In my experience it does not work if the pressure is not applied in the edge of the memories, so the pad must cover its boarders (may work with a hole in the middle of the pad as well). Cuts must be perfect because if you use one too "high" the others will loose contact between the memories and the shell. It does not work if you put pressure directly in the motherboard, it must be over the memories, so the problem is memory joint related.

I use to say that you should keep the console on for a few minutes after the mod, even if it display errors (just this first try) because I have seem cases (mostly of them) that it does not work immediatly. The warming up of the motherboard is important in this first step. It could be because it bends the motherboard to the right position and the pads them keep it in that position, but I believe it is because somehow it pushes the memories joints to the right position. It is not like melting the joint, but the heat provided by the motherboard together to the pressure applied to the weak joints somehow works. I repeat: the pressure must be exactly over the edges of the memories, specially the ones at the side of the GPU.

I also not saying the this heat comes from the memories. I believe the most of the generated heat comes from the GPU. It may warm up the memories joints, which are bellow the memories, not above like the rubber pads. This heat is not enough to melt anything, but somehow affects the weakened joints (flexing the board during warming up/cooling down weaks the joints, after sometime the heat start to affect the joints and giving 3RLs, the pressure counterbalance any effect from the heat).

Keep in mind that English is not my native language and sometimes I may find difficult to express my ideas in the right english terms.
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RBJTech

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #76 on: March 15, 2007, 11:04:00 AM »

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 15 2007, 02:05 PM) View Post

Keep in mind that English is not my native language and sometimes I may find difficult to express my ideas in the right english terms.


Your English is good - significantly better than my Brazilian ..  wink.gif

I think I'll leave it at that - if it works, great...  Just something else to add to the 'try it - it might work pile' ..  laugh.gif

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kidman64

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #77 on: March 15, 2007, 12:26:00 PM »

QUOTE(mattygabe @ Mar 15 2007, 02:18 AM) *
Go read the other thread, "3RL is A Design Flaw", excellently written and a lot of great pointers/advice over there for how to do it yourself.

I can't seem to find it, would you mind posting a link? Thanks in advance:)
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gnutzmann

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2007, 02:02:00 PM »

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 15 2007, 11:03 AM) View Post

AHAHAHAHAHA
UHUHUHUHUHUHU
WOW!!!!
 ph34r.gif  ph34r.gif  ph34r.gif  ph34r.gif  ohmy.gif  ohmy.gif  ohmy.gif  ohmy.gif
I DON'T BELIVE, IT'S ALIVE! IT'S ALIVE!!
Ahahah, guys, I'm so happy!
It was very frustating in the beggining when I put the motherboard back on RF shield. Turned it on and BAMMM!!! 3RL! But I let my 360 turned on for 8 minutos after the 3RL, turned it off and then turned it on again.
And... whole shit!! It's working now, it's alive. 20 minutes playing Gears of War until now.
I made photos of the mod and videos too. Now I will go to gym but latter I will post hear my videos and photos.
What the fuck, my 360 was bricked for 2 months and now I'm playing again. I spent 30 minutes and US$0.25.
I really don't now why it's working, if it's because it bend/flex the motherboar or if it pressure bad solder joints of the memory. I don't know for how long it will work but nothing fixed my 360 until now.
We only have to discover WHY it's functioning again to made this last forever.


put the video on the YOUTUBE....... everybody will see.... and believe... BRAZIL RULEZ!!!!!!!
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Mr.Chiaroscuro

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #79 on: March 15, 2007, 02:48:00 PM »

Not a SPAM, but in the original forum where this was posted, there is a survey running about how many units have been fixed using this method: right now there is 23 consoles fixed in the last 48 hours. It could be more, since not everyone is reporting, they are busy playing their back-from-the-dead Xbox 360.

I will try to post a video in youtube, but my photos says a lot already. A video will only show the 360 running again, but since the pads are bellow the motherboard they won't be seen anyway.
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mattygabe

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #80 on: March 15, 2007, 02:41:00 PM »

QUOTE(kidman64 @ Mar 15 2007, 01:57 PM) View Post

I can't seem to find it, would you mind posting a link? Thanks in advance:)

My apologies, here's the link to that topic:
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=588032

Now, I can't speak from experience, but I believe the GENERAL idea being espoused over there is to

First, do the heat gun reflow "fix" very carefully.  Like Chancer said, heat guns aren't toys and they aren't professional tools to fix video game consoles, they're primarily made to strip paint.  Be careful with them, and mind your xbox motherboard.  A few too many seconds of a heat gun can permanently can your Xbox for good (so find a GOOD guide on how to PROPERLY perform the heat gun fix!)

Then, use the trick outlined in that thread above ("Red Lights = Design Flaw" by dokworm).  Right now, the theory in my head is that the solders on the chips aren't being melted by the heat of the Xbox - I believe it was RBJTech provided some research that suggests that it never gets very hot (only 74 degrees celsius - way cooler than the temp needed to melt solder!), but rather, I believe the heat is high enough to allow the board to flex (or bow) one way or the other, thus putting stress on the solders of the chips, eventually breaking them.  I'd imagine that even if its not hot enough to melt solder, getting it as warm as the internal temperature of the 360 would be enough to let it slowly break or lose a quality connection. (Hence maybe this is why it takes a lot of time for the problem to develop).

My friend's first 360 (the friend who gave me the bricked, yet manageable 360 I have now, that generous bugger) actually had problems that would fit with my theory above.  At first, his video started going funky - we found out that it was the GREEN in his video display.  When we took the GREEN plug out (component RED GREEN BLUE), the picture was fine as long as you didn't miss the green.  For us, playing RS:Vegas, the funky green all over the screen being gone was better than crappy colors.

Then, after that occurred, his 360 stopped booting altogether.  He never thought that he was lumped together with the 3RL group because he never got them - it just never got to the startup screen.  However, after he did the heat gun trick out of desperation, it worked - for a few weeks.

Luckily to say now, my friend got a new core system and also slapped on an additional two-year warranty on top of MS's 1-year.  He should be set from most grief now. smile.gif

As I've said before, I really don't know if this is the case, and I'm not saying that it is.  I do, however, feel that with the evidence provided to us thanks to modders like RBJTech and the rest, and the collective experience brought here to the boards, we're able to formulate some great theories as to why this is happening.  My box itself has fallen victim to it, and the next time it bites the dust what I outlined to you above is what I will do (I'd say that's a decent determiner regarding how much a person truly believes what they say, wouldn't you?).
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bigg92

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #81 on: March 15, 2007, 03:18:00 PM »

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 15 2007, 03:19 PM) View Post

Not a SPAM, but in the original forum where this was posted, there is a survey running about how many units have been fixed using this method: right now there is 23 consoles fixed in the last 48 hours. It could be more, since not everyone is reporting, they are busy playing their back-from-the-dead Xbox 360.

I will try to post a video in youtube, but my photos says a lot already. A video will only show the 360 running again, but since the pads are bellow the motherboard they won't be seen anyway.

Were there any reports of this not working? i mean besides me.
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Mr.Chiaroscuro

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #82 on: March 15, 2007, 04:24:00 PM »

QUOTE(bigg92 @ Mar 15 2007, 06:25 PM) *

Were there any reports of this not working? i mean besides me.


Well the survey results shows 4 not working against 25 working. But:
- The 4 negative results users did not post anything in the thread, so they could be fakes, since anyone who could not perform the method succesfully would have post to get more information or at least cry about it (but we can not be sure).
- Of course the same can be said about the positive results (we can not be sure) but very known users have been posting positive results, and usually they are very vocal about it. Another thing is that the survey can only register one vote per user, when many users have reported to successful fix more than one console (one from a relative or friend).

I suggest to you to try again, but to make better pads (look at the ones I have made in the photos). Maybe you will not be able to fix your console but there is a big chance that the pads are just the wrong size or in the wrong position over the memories.
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bigg92

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #83 on: March 15, 2007, 04:52:00 PM »

Those are still preatty good results. I really just need a new mobo.
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DaniloMQ

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #84 on: March 15, 2007, 05:11:00 PM »

PACOTE HERE


Just today i fixed 5 X360 with errors 0102 and 0020

smile.gif

BRAZIL RULZ!!!!!!!


Who wuold figure that only a simple method would fix it all


I got some pretty rough x360 today that had the GPU soldered many times and this trick solved all smile.gif


If you are from Brazil and want to fix this contact me smile.gif For a fair price i do it for you + put your coolers to 12v

[]'s

Pacote
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belke

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #85 on: March 15, 2007, 04:57:00 PM »

QUOTE(DaniloMQ @ Mar 15 2007, 05:42 PM) View Post

PACOTE HERE
Just today i fixed 5 X360 with errors 0102 and 0020

smile.gif

BRAZIL RULZ!!!!!!!
Who wuold figure that only a simple method would fix it all
I got some pretty rough x360 today that had the GPU soldered many times and this trick solved all smile.gif
If you are from Brazil and want to fix this contact me smile.gif For a fair price i do it for you + put your coolers to 12v

[]'s

Pacote

I dont think anyone would pay someone to do a mod this easy smile.gif good to see its working though
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DaniloMQ

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #86 on: March 15, 2007, 06:09:00 PM »

QUOTE(belke @ Mar 16 2007, 12:04 AM) *

I dont think anyone would pay someone to do a mod this easy smile.gif good to see its working though


There are many people who dont have the tools to open it or just dont want to open it afraid to break something...

And i dont just do this mod , I modify the coolers to 12v , not everyone knows how to weld biggrin.gif
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RafaelMonteiro

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #87 on: March 15, 2007, 07:07:00 PM »

good works man!!

its works!!!!! oh my gooddd!!!!

thx!

Brazil rlz!
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MiahX007

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #88 on: March 15, 2007, 08:10:00 PM »

I have a theory: What if heating the RAM chips by insulating them is what is causing the fix.

Sound insane?

My 360 has been heatgunned twice by me (an electronics tech). I did some other cooling mods as well, and thought I had it fixed, I let it run for 2 days straight (turned off at night) running COD3. I thought it was fixed for sure. But then the 3rlod returned the next time I tried it. WTF!

Today I tried booting it several times, receiving the 3rlod every time. I then wrapped the whole console in a towel and let the 3rl blink for several minutes (heat up). Then WITH IT STILL WRAPPED UP IN THE TOWEL I turned it off and back on again, it booted!

I took the towel off, it froze, could not get it to boot again. Tried with the towel on several more times, while hot it will boot. But it does freeze shortly afterwards due to overheating of the CPU/GPU I am sure.

So what if the eraser insulators are causing them to get hot and work for some reason?

I know I have tried damn near everything, and am running out of ideas.
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mattygabe

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The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
« Reply #89 on: March 15, 2007, 08:56:00 PM »

QUOTE(MiahX007 @ Mar 15 2007, 09:41 PM) View Post

I have a theory: What if heating the RAM chips by insulating them is what is causing the fix.

Sound insane?

My 360 has been heatgunned twice by me (an electronics tech). I did some other cooling mods as well, and thought I had it fixed, I let it run for 2 days straight (turned off at night) running COD3. I thought it was fixed for sure. But then the 3rlod returned the next time I tried it. WTF!

Today I tried booting it several times, receiving the 3rlod every time. I then wrapped the whole console in a towel and let the 3rl blink for several minutes (heat up). Then WITH IT STILL WRAPPED UP IN THE TOWEL I turned it off and back on again, it booted!

I took the towel off, it froze, could not get it to boot again. Tried with the towel on several more times, while hot it will boot. But it does freeze shortly afterwards due to overheating of the CPU/GPU I am sure.

So what if the eraser insulators are causing them to get hot and work for some reason?

I know I have tried damn near everything, and am running out of ideas.


Possibly, but it seems that because the RAM is the hottest component in the 360, a lot of people are putting heatsinks on them.  You would think that doing the reverse would also produce a reverse effect in bricked Xboxes.  Or, perhaps its this:

Because you never had the proper heat transfer mechanism installed on the RAM, they overheated enough to possibly make a loose solder.  By insulating it, you're simply putting an "auto-reflow" in.  For those Xboxes that aren't bricked, putting heatsinks on them stops the problem from ever occuring.

Forgive my candid thoughts here, but maybe the best idea would be to reflow them by hand (heat gun), and then apply the heat sinks to stop the vicious cycle.  Honestly I feel uncomfortable insulating one of the warmest components in the box, regardless of if it is producing quick results.

I've also heard that these RAM chips are overclocked, and this is why they're so warm... Can anyone confirm or add to this?

I'm pretty confused myself.  There are thoughts that its the RAM chips that are the problem, and methods that deal with them help bricked Xboxes. Others deal with supporting the CPU and GPU after reflow, and those methods support that as well. Oy vay.
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