Print

[belke]

QUOTE(brywalker @ Mar 13 2007, 10:40 PM)

How much space do you have between the memory and the RF shield? How about if you don't screw it back down to the X clamps?

I found some 6mm copper ramsinks that may do the trick. Might have to trim a mm off them, but I think it would be a better solution thermally while acheving the same thing (pressing the chips down).

i think it says 4mm maybe u could shave them down and do a test fit.

also I think Brazilians probably have the best fixes for 360's. Since it's so hot and humid all year round the motherboards are prone to warp a lot faster than people else ware. So maybe we should start believing them since they have a lot more to lose than we do.

[Xandegui77]

QUOTE(brywalker @ Mar 14 2007, 12:40 AM)

How much space do you have between the memory and the RF shield? How about if you don't screw it back down to the X clamps?

I found some 6mm copper ramsinks that may do the trick. Might have to trim a mm off them, but I think it would be a better solution thermally while acheving the same thing (pressing the chips down).

Now I agree with you. I read the original thread and thei said that the height of the rubber must be between 3 and 4mm. But a rubber is resilient, heatsinks of cooper ar not. I think that you will need to measure carefully the height and use a height a bit bigger than the space, just enough to give a slight pressure. The thermal glue would do the rest.

[Xandegui77]

QUOTE(mattygabe @ Mar 14 2007, 12:32 AM)

This is an extremely interesting and intriguing topic.

Indeed, it's extremely intriguing because in our forum, www.portalxbox.com.br and http://forum.jogos.u...ewforum.php?f=5 , after the initial post, A LOT of bricked 360, that was abandonned in a drawer, sudenly start to function again. I laught in the beggining, thinking myself: "What in the hell they think they are doing? UFO's and Santa Claus, I believe on you" hahhaha.

QUOTE

To my Brazilian friends, please don't be offended by members who are skeptical regarding this method.  It wasn't a Brazil-USA sort of skepticism, but instead was merely that only a few people (yourselves) have stated that it works, and no one has really shown enough evidence that this is a permanent fix.

Ok, no heart feelings. Nobody offended, just sorry us for our bad english. I was skeptical, VERY skeptical. There is evidence that this thing was able to fix a lot of bricked xbox 360, but for how long time? Is it a permanent fix? I don't think so, I'm still skeptical about being a permanent fix but not skeptical about the efficiency of this.

QUOTE

We also didn't think that you said this was THE end-all for the 3RL. This may just be a longer fix than the towel/heat gun tricks are (from what I read the towel idea is quite an inane thing to do).

Uhm, you guys? Nope. Just one guy said that this is THE END for all the 3RL. He is wrong. He did not have the permission of the guy that did this mod for the first time. Because of a bad english and a good cause, this post was blocke once thinking that was spam and now in this post was misunderstood.
The guy that posted here had a very good intention  but did shit, hehee. Some think that it's just a joke and some don't believe it's possible.

"Chiaoscuro" tha was the "inventor" of rubber fixing bricked 360. He is fluent in english and have english as a foreign language. He will post here but HE was supposed to be posting here in the first place.

QUOTE

What I am concerned about is the long-term effects of this. We need to get someone in here that really truly knows his components, and could possibly give us some insight into what this might do. I'm worried that this may burn up the memory chips altogether, something that might be almost unfixable!

I think in the same way. But here Microsoft do nothing for us. We supported Microsoft but we have to fix ourselves.

QUOTE

Please give us updates on how these fixes are going. Let us know how long someone's bricked 360 has kept running since you've performed the eraser trick. Are there any new errors? Any little quirks/weird habits the 360 has since attained?

2 xbox are working for 4 months untill now. Both had 3RL code 0102. A lot are working for hours and some form days and weeks. I counted 15 xbox fixed with rubber.
Two xbox had 2RL (overheat) in the begining, made a thickier rubber and now are working flawlessly.
No 360 stopped working untill now.
Nothing weird happening until now. Turn on perfectly, work flawlessly in every game, no errors until now.
What the fuck? Too good to be true. Mine is bricked and saturday i will try to fix with rubber. If works I'll try to replace with coper and AS thermal glue.

QUOTE

This is key to getting this solution out. Just like with scientific findings, you have to put it out there and let others test it for themselves and come to the same conclusions you did before you can crown yourself victorious. I'm interested to see what types of results this brings - it seems to be a good fix thus far!

I support you. I'm no more skeptical but I want scientif findings. I need scientific findings. I don't want to believe that Microsoft used lower frequency memory that now is overclocked and after bricked I have to use a rubber to fix that. Now I think that we are in the right way. People are replying, asking, making theories and now will try that for themselves. Will post the results, findings, critics, etc...
Nobody crowned himself victorious and if did, what a stupid.  "Chiaroscuro" that was the "inventor" of this mod was very cautelous and wanted a lot of tries and findings before posting here. But someone made in his name. tsc tsc..

QUOTE

Edit: Afterthought - what about drilling holes in the rubber or whatever other object you use to prop up the memory chips - or just using a pad half the size of those erasers above so the entire chip isn't covered. Are there workarounds to this heat issue?

Well thinked. I'm thinking in a ring in a rectangular shape. It's openned in the center. Maybe something in a form of "U". The flat part of the U under the memory, glued with thermal compound and the rest of the U being as foot over the RF shield. It can be made of aluminun that is cheap and easy to find. I don't know it was clear. Maybe a picture tomorrow.

[william di mase]

QUOTE(belke @ Mar 14 2007, 01:05 AM)

i think it says 4mm maybe u could shave them down and do a test fit.

also I think Brazilians probably have the best fixes for 360's. Since it's so hot and humid all year round the motherboards are prone to warp a lot faster than people else ware. So maybe we should start believing them since they have a lot more to lose than we do.

Sorry by another post. Well, the guy who discovery this method live in Curitiba, south of Brazil. Its a cold place. Here, in São Paulo, the clima is varied, but, without humidity in bigger part of the year...

[Biablo]

Hi

I got the 3 red lights 3 weeks ago, i sent it to an electronic company i know. they X-RAY all the BGA chips and they did not see any bad soldering in them, any suggestens that can help me?

[gnutzmann]

for that they had closed my topic… I played my deceased 360 for 3 hours yesterday… I believe the technique and mine he functioned. if they do not believe. they are with the 360 broken.


           

[RafaelGali]

I buy xbox 360 with 3rl...      

Thanks Chiaroscuro, our Brazilian Macgyver.

[william di mase]

They are each time more people making mod here and having resulted. Paraphrasing Visa, and Arc Delta, from Uol Jogos , “ fix a shit of a milionaire project with a litle eraser does not have price”…

[Mr.Chiaroscuro]

Hello All!

I am Chiaroscuro on the brazilian boards (and MrChiaroscuro in XboxLive) and the original poster of this mod.

Sorry that the previous explanations were only in Portuguese and the tutorial is not in English yet. I was planning to post here a proper translation, but was quite busy in the last days. I should have foresee that when I posted it at www.portalxbox.com people would started spreeding the news fast. Some forums members there got excited with the solution and start to post it here and all aroung.

I will try to provide a proper translation today.

But some quick remarks:
- Yes, it works. It sounds silly but it is effective. More than 15 Xbox 360 have been reported as fixed, and 4 by myself. I do not clain that it is the solution for all Xbox 360 0102 errors, but it looks like that a vast range of problems can be fixed by this easy solution.
- The main idea is to introduce a small (enphasys on small) pressure over the memory chips that are mounted in the inferior side of the motherboard, to keep them as much tight with the motherboard as possible, preventing some contact errors. Do not bend your motherboard.
- Rubber (cutted from normal plastic eraser) was choosed because it is a cheap non-thermal conductive material and easy to mold. You can use any material which can be mold and cut, as long as it does not deform over time with temperature and applies a soft pressure over the chips.
- The memories on the 360 I opened up run very cold, they do not warm up (only a little). The GPU and CPU in other hand, get really hot. For that reason I do not think it will be a problem to put rubber foots/pads on it. The clue used is from the stick type, very little, just to keep the pads attached to the memories when putting the motherboard back in the inner shell. It is very strange to me that some people are reporting that normally their 360 memories are hot. Anyway you can cut a small hole in the pad (I think it will still work) with you are worried with temperature. However do not make the pads smaller than the memories. In fact they should be a little bigger, 0.1 cm bigger to each side. The reason for that is that the pressure should be applied mostly in the edges of the memories, otherwise it will not work. A smaller or displaced pad will not work.
- And if your 360 have 3RLs and is out of the guarantee, what do you have to loose? This method is cheap, easy to do, and does not modify permanently your console, you can undo that anytime. Many people are having success with the method it is worth a try.
- My 360 is running for more than 4 months with this mod. I opened several times (last time this weekend) to be sure that nothing was wrong with the pads, specially becuase they are made of rubber. Everything was fine, nothing to be worried about.

Full translation coming shortly. I will try to answer as many questions as possible. This information can be fully spreed, as long as it gives credit to me.

Sorry for any speeling errors. English is not my native language and I am in a hurry now.

Chears,
MrChiaroscuro

[dokworm]

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 14 2007, 03:38 AM)

Good post man! I agree with you in some parts and in others I have to disagree.
You did in the right way, being polite. Say someone is retarded like someone did is not the right way.

Everybody here is just guessing! What is real is that here in Brazil a lot of bricked 360 were fixed with a simple rubber.

You know that the GPU/CPU on the ones you have fixed had broken connections and this rubber could flex the board in the same way that here we have a lot of people saying that his bricked 360 works if a pressure is put over the memories. Ok, the pressure over the memories could flex the board and/or make the bad solder joint gain god connection.

Now it's too soon for anybody to make conclusions. There are a lot of bad connections on CPU, GPU and RAM, everybody already said something related.

What is impressive is that this simple rubber is fixing (I don't know for how long time) a lot of bricked 360. I don't know if it fix flexing the board or make good connections on RAM. I sincerily don't know but we came here just to say that is working better and with more succes than using hot gun, using a towel or another crazy stuff that people are doing when are desesperate. How about losing 700 bucks??

I'm all for people trying it, but I would recommend somebody use a thermal probe and get at least a rough measure of the heat of those chips under normal loads. If they run cold then the rubber blocks probably won't harm anything. If they run hot then you will shorten the life of the chips significantly.

If it is true that the memory chips are also suffering from bad connections, I highly doubt gravity is to blame. The force is *far* too weak, there just isn't enough mass in the chips. The flexing of the board could cause the memory chip connections to fail just as the CPU/GPU connections fail.

The most likely scenario is the crappy X clamps and board and excessive heat in the 360 cause different connections to fail in different 360s depending on the particular way your particular board flexes.

I don't know if I would want a hard heatsink on these pressing hard against the case, perhaps just a very thick shim topped with a thermal pad for the last mm or so.
Ideally something like this for a long term fix if the rubber blocks make your 360 work, so at least you get some heat transfer.
http://www.acp.com/s...rubber_670.html
http://www.stockwell...als_thermal.php


But anyway, it is another thing to try that costs effectively nothing and is unlikely to cause any further damage in the short term.

[brywalker]

First off, let me say thank you for your time and effort. We would be SOL if it weren't for people like you fixing Microsoft's mistakes.

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 14 2007, 01:01 PM)

- The memories on the 360 I opened up run very cold, they do not warm up (only a little). The GPU and CPU in other hand, get really hot. For that reason I do not think it will be a problem to put rubber foots/pads on it. The clue used is from the stick type, very little, just to keep the pads attached to the memories when putting the motherboard back in the inner shell. It is very strange to me that some people are reporting that normally their 360 memories are hot. Anyway you can cut a small hole in the pad (I think it will still work) with you are worried with temperature. However do not make the pads smaller than the memories. In fact they should be a little bigger, 0.1 cm bigger to each side. The reason for that is that the pressure should be applied mostly in the edges of the memories, otherwise it will not work. A smaller or displaced pad will not work.

This is the only thing I take issue with. This directly conflicts with the info that RBJTech posted in his temperature mesurements.

Lower Case (Directly under RAM 1 & 2) 48C 118.4F
Lower Case (Directly under RAM 3 & 4) 51C 123.8F

Now this is the case, not on the RAM itself. It is safe to say that the RAM will run warmer than that. In fact, if you measure the top ones directly:

RAM 1 (Front left) 68C 154.4F
RAM 2 (Front right) 68C 154.4F

I am not saying that this fix has helped. However I would be concerned about the long term effects. I think a block of 4mm copper would work far better than the eraser. And be a bit safer.

[RBJTech]

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 14 2007, 12:01 PM)

- The memories on the 360 I opened up run very cold, they do not warm up (only a little). The GPU and CPU in other hand, get really hot.

  - Er not according to my heat temperature gun they're not - they are the HOTTEST chip on the board by far because the do not have any heatsink attached to them.  You can bring the temperature down rapidly with a little passive heatsink / THERMAL pads on the rear and under the GPU, but IMO putting a thermal  INSULATOR on top of them is asking for trouble.

It may well solve the 3ROL - via pressing the memory chips or motherboard - but I would use two sets of thermal conductive pads (on top of one another=6mm) to achieve the same result - then you get the pressure AND a heatsink all in one ...

[brywalker]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Mar 14 2007, 01:39 PM)

but I would use two sets of thermal conductive pads (on top of one another=6mm) to achieve the same result

So we are looking at a 6mm gap? If I could obtain a 3mm block of copper and then add a 3mm thermal pad this would be fantastic. That way we are actually drawing the heat away with the copper and then using the thermal pad as a gap filler.

I have no way of measuring here. Is that gap accurate?

Funny how you, me and dokworm posted nearly identical info at the same time.

[Mr.Chiaroscuro]

The gap between the motherboard and the inner case is about 0.4-0.5 cm.

Regarding the temperature of the memories: I cannot precise measure its temperature here, since I do not have a probe in hand. I glad appreciate that someone run some tests. My impression from the memories in the up side of the motherboard, with the 360 running on open was that they are much cooler than anything on the board. The highest temperatures came from CPU and specially GPU, not the memories.

Anyway, a thermal conductive material that can be cut/mold like rubber, and keeo its size firmly over heaten, and capable to apply a soft pressure over the chips will also work. The thermal pads MS is using in the recent 360 models are not effective working because they are too soft.

[Xandegui77]

QUOTE(dokworm @ Mar 14 2007, 09:35 AM)

I'm all for people trying it, but I would recommend somebody use a thermal probe and get at least a rough measure of the heat of those chips under normal loads. If they run cold then the rubber blocks probably won't harm anything. If they run hot then you will shorten the life of the chips significantly.

I agree. We have to test the temperatures with and without the rubber. My 360 is bricked and I will try this thing today. I'll post results here. I can't measure the temperature because I think the temperatures with 3RL is not the same in full load.
I think that the best way to probe is with a laser but I don't have one.
I think that if the problem is the memories, we need to put a heatsink on the bottom and another in the top of the four memories. But how we can do this with the memories that are under de GPU heatsink?

QUOTE

If it is true that the memory chips are also suffering from bad connections, I highly doubt gravity is to blame. The force is *far* too weak, there just isn't enough mass in the chips. The flexing of the board could cause the memory chip connections to fail just as the CPU/GPU connections fail.

A dumbass said that the gravity is the problem, hehe. Off course NOT. Maybe overclocked memory, flex of the board, transfer of the heat of the GPU to the memories, etc...
Gravity? lol.

QUOTE

I don't know if I would want a hard heatsink on these pressing hard against the case, perhaps just a very thick shim topped with a thermal pad for the last mm or so.
Ideally something like this for a long term fix if the rubber blocks make your 360 work, so at least you get some heat transfer.
But anyway, it is another thing to try that costs effectively nothing and is unlikely to cause any further damage in the short term.

That's what I thinked. I will try to fix my bricked xbox 360 today and I this will work I don't know. But if works, I'll made something better for a long term. Probably aluminun blocks glued with Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive. But in the last mm I'll use the pink think that microsoft used, just to put some pressure over the memories.
For that bricked ones, why not try? It's costless, easy to do, reversible and problably will not damage anything in the short term if you don't flex a lot the board.