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[RBJTech]

QUOTE(brywalker @ Mar 14 2007, 06:27 PM)

I agree with your thinking, however what happens is that the heat that is being pulled off the heatsink is always moving. Even if the sink got hotter than the memory, the "convection" would keep it being pulled to the sink as opposed to the memory.

Simply put - the GPU h/s temperature directly above the GPU die is listed in my graph - it's way below the memory temperature (with no heatsink), therefore it cannot 'heat up' the memory because the memory is  already hotter than the heatsink ..

The memory is also attached to the far side of the GPU heatsink - ie the coolest bit by far.  Therefore I am confident that adding minimal heat to the GPU h/s from the memory has zero negative consequences.

Cheers,

Richard.

[Chancer]

QUOTE

I don't have access to edit my posts, you do. Can we just edit the replies and erase the link for the other forum?

It is not necessary to edit out the links as they stand, nor do I have any problem with giving credit to the people involved. It was just the url kept being stated for the sake of it. Any how as it has stopped all is well.

QUOTE

What evidence do you have that this isn't a long-term fix?

None. How could anyone? it has not been tested long term. having studied everything so far, it seems to me the effect this fix is having is more to do with the fact that the board is put under pressure. Over time with thermal expansion and contraction the effectiveness will be lessened.
heat gun is not a long term fix either, neither is jamming toothpicks in or wrapping sensitive electronic equipment in Towels (All these things have been labelled a fix). Short term improvement may be seen but the symptoms re-occur. I still think re-balling and reworking the BGA components is the way forward...but who has the money for the equipment needed?
At the end of it all none of this should be required on an expensive console at less than 18 months old.

[bigg92]

I decided to try this and will post the results soon. I used rubber cement since i felt that would be the best that way i can remove it easy if it doesnt work.  Rubber Cement should almost be completly dry.I cut the eraser peices .4cm each roughly..to the best of my ablity. One peice came out kinda short but it should still work imo.

Pic of my mobo before trying this


Me applying rubber cement


Finished product just drying

See the one that was cut a little to short.

[Mr.Chiaroscuro]

Hello again, all!

I just ran some basic tests regarding the temperature of the internal components. Keep in mind that is very subjective, since I do not have a thermal probe or any way to effective measure the temperature.

I run half an hour with Gear of War (very GPU demanding) with the console open but with the MoBo in the inner shell. After this period of time I decided to check the sinks. They are very hot, I can not even touch the GPU sink. The memories on the upper side of the motherboard, outside of the sink, were warm. Quite warm, but not hot, I can touch them easily. And after a second on two the memories were simple cold again, they cool down very fast. The GPU sink however, was still very hot and I can still not touch it. I know that this test is as imprecise as it can be, I need to get a proble asap, but this seems to confirm to me that the hottest components are the GPU and the CPU. The memories can get warm, but not really hot, and cool down quick. I was unable to check the memories in the back of the MoBo, but my guess is that they run in a similar temperature.

Back the pads: I am pretty sure that thermal materials would be better for the mod, but the rubber for the sake of testing is fine. I do not believe it will warm that much the memories even after a long period of time (mine is 4 months running that way).

To the ones trying the method: make sure the pads are a little bigger than the memories. The pressure has to be applied at the edge of the memories, specially the ones at the side of the GPU.

[bigg92]

Video sais it all. CRAP quality but i didnt want to wait forever to upload so its still proof.
http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/bigg92/?action=view&current=MOV01228.flv

At first it didnt work but my camera ran out of batery and i let that get a quick charge and i decided to let it heat up for 10 mins like i read and when the battery had eneough juice to shoot that little clip my 360 worked worked! I kinda cussed a littl ebit in amusement.... sorry for that.

[RBJTech]

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 14 2007, 11:02 PM)

Hello again, all!

I just ran some basic tests regarding the temperature of the internal components. Keep in mind that is very subjective, since I do not have a thermal probe or any way to effective measure the temperature.

I run half an hour with Gear of War (very GPU demanding) with the console open but with the MoBo in the inner shell. After this period of time I decided to check the sinks. They are very hot, I can not even touch the GPU sink. The memories on the upper side of the motherboard, outside of the sink, were warm. Quite warm, but not hot, I can touch them easily. And after a second on two the memories were simple cold again, they cool down very fast. The GPU sink however, was still very hot and I can still not touch it. I know that this test is as imprecise as it can be, I need to get a proble asap, but this seems to confirm to me that the hottest components are the GPU and the CPU. The memories can get warm, but not really hot, and cool down quick. I was unable to check the memories in the back of the MoBo, but my guess is that they run in a similar temperature.

Back the pads: I am pretty sure that thermal materials would be better for the mod, but the rubber for the sake of testing is fine. I do not believe it will warm that much the memories even after a long period of time (mine is 4 months running that way).

To the ones trying the method: make sure the pads are a little bigger than the memories. The pressure has to be applied at the edge of the memories, specially the ones at the side of the GPU.

Get yourself an infra-red probe - that's the only way you are doing to properly read the temps from the RAM.  By putting your finger (or a metal probe for that matter) on the RAM, you are effectively becoming a heatsink and removing the heat into your finger.  The CPU/GPU 'feel' the hottest because they contain massive reserves of heat - so you touch them, your finger absorbs the first heat, but there is still plenty more so it keeps absorbing it then 'ouch'... With the RAM, there is not enough mass on the chip to sustain the heat - so it drops quickly.  This is the reason a small passive heatsink is ample to keep them cool but they DO get very hot without it.  (why do you think all high speed PC RAM has sinks on the DIMM ?)

I'll test them again tomorrow for you (I now have an unmodded console to play with..) but I'm pretty certain the temps are accurate.

PS - Have a look at the PS3 RAM Layout - they are attached to the core heatpipe unit ...

[bigg92]

http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/bigg92/?action=view&current=MOV01230.flv

           

[Xandegui77]

QUOTE(bigg92 @ Mar 14 2007, 08:58 PM)

http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/bigg92/?action=view&current=MOV01230.flv
           

Come on Bigg92, did you cutted the eraser using your foot? That was horrible.
Man, make a risk with a pen in the eraser where you have to cut. Put the knife all the way out and cut on a single move. It will be perfect sized.
And no need for the cement, the glue is used just to put the eraser in place at the time you reassemble. You don't have to fix firmly and permanent.

I disassembled mine, fixed the eraser but now I will have some beers.
Then, latter, I will reassemble. If that shit works (360) I think I'll scream WHAT IN THE HELL until tomorrow.
Guys, pray for me, hehehe.
Tomorow you will read the next chapter of this history.
Man, I really don't believe it's working for a lot of people. It will have to fix mine.

Bigg92, cut another eraser, with care this time and do all over again. Your 360 turned on once. Let's make it turn on again.

[mattygabe]

QUOTE(bigg92 @ Mar 14 2007, 07:19 PM)

Video sais it all. CRAP quality but i didnt want to wait forever to upload so its still proof.
http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/bigg92/?action=view&current=MOV01228.flv

At first it didnt work but my camera ran out of batery and i let that get a quick charge and i decided to let it heat up for 10 mins like i read and when the battery had eneough juice to shoot that little clip my 360 worked worked! I kinda cussed a littl ebit in amusement.... sorry for that.

Haha, I couldn't help but laugh at your cussing. "Holy shit, it works.  If this shit works, that shits crazy." Hahaha.

Seriously though, I think right now the best way to go is to figure out how to remove the X clips altogether, and fasten the cpu/gpu down on the middle of the board similar to a PC motherboard... Before you even do this, though, you reflow the chips' solder (aka the "Heat Gun Trick") to get the solders right once and for all (or so we hope), and then correctly fastening the motherboard should prevent flexing, which thus leads to broken solders and three red lights.

Go read the other thread, "3RL is A Design Flaw", excellently written and a lot of great pointers/advice over there for how to do it yourself.  If you've ever installed a PC motherboard, and since you've already cracked your 360 open to mess with it I'm assuming you have, it doesn't seem all that difficult to Magiver this solution into real life.

[bigg92]

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 14 2007, 07:50 PM)

Come on Bigg92, did you cutted the eraser using your foot? That was horrible.
Man, make a risk with a pen in the eraser where you have to cut. Put the knife all the way out and cut on a single move. It will be perfect sized.
And no need for the cement, the glue is used just to put the eraser in place at the time you reassemble. You don't have to fix firmly and permanent.

I disassembled mine, fixed the eraser but now I will have some beers.
Then, latter, I will reassemble. If that shit works (360) I think I'll scream WHAT IN THE HELL until tomorrow.
Guys, pray for me, hehehe.
Tomorow you will read the next chapter of this history.
Man, I really don't believe it's working for a lot of people. It will have to fix mine.

Bigg92, cut another eraser, with care this time and do all over again. Your 360 turned on once. Let's make it turn on again.

Yes i did cut it with my fucking foot , i dont have arms.... lol just messin around. I only had a small blade at the time,really small and did the best with what i could. The rubber cement is preatty much like glue. now i, using perfect peices lol


lol yeah i waas happy.
but i just tried it again and its giving me the red lights. Well this  happened the first time too and i let it heat up so lets see what happens.

[bigg92]

Nope its not working again. I just need a new mobo i think.

[Mr.Chiaroscuro]

QUOTE(bigg92 @ Mar 14 2007, 11:05 PM)

Nope its not working again. I just need a new mobo i think.

bigg, cut the rubber in perfect retangules 0.3 to 0.4 cm high. They should cover all the memory (a little bit more of size of the memory) because the pressure should be applied mainly at the edges of the memories, a smaller pad would not be enough.

At the first time you try the method, it is perfectly normal that it still gaves the 3RLs. Wait for a few minutes (5 min) with the 360 turned on (even with errors). Turn it off and on again. Now the 3RLs should be gone. In most of the times it is necessary this waiting on the 3RLs because the memories are not in the correct place yer. The heat generated when you keep the 360 on will put the memories in the right place. From then you do not need to do that anymore, just in the first try after the mod.

[bigg92]

I did leave it on for a while. Im still doing it but no luck yet.

[RBJTech]

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 15 2007, 02:15 AM)

bigg, cut the rubber in perfect retangules 0.3 to 0.4 cm high. They should cover all the memory (a little bit more of size of the memory) because the pressure should be applied mainly at the edges of the memories, a smaller pad would not be enough.

At the first time you try the method, it is perfectly normal that it still gaves the 3RLs. Wait for a few minutes (5 min) with the 360 turned on (even with errors). Turn it off and on again. Now the 3RLs should be gone. In most of the times it is necessary this waiting on the 3RLs because the memories are not in the correct place yer. The heat generated when you keep the 360 on will put the memories in the right place. From then you do not need to do that anymore, just in the first try after the mod.

  WHAT !    - are you suggesting the heat from the 360 memory melts and reflows ...   (didn't you just say they don;t even get hot ... ?)

Sorry - this is 100% a 'bend the board' fix ... bigg92 - your cuts are just fine and if it's pushing the board up then it ain't gonna work regardless of how smooth your cuts are ...

[Xandegui77]

AHAHAHAHAHA
UHUHUHUHUHUHU
WOW!!!!
               
I DON'T BELIVE, IT'S ALIVE! IT'S ALIVE!!
Ahahah, guys, I'm so happy!
It was very frustating in the beggining when I put the motherboard back on RF shield. Turned it on and BAMMM!!! 3RL! But I let my 360 turned on for 8 minutos after the 3RL, turned it off and then turned it on again.
And... whole shit!! It's working now, it's alive. 20 minutes playing Gears of War until now.
I made photos of the mod and videos too. Now I will go to gym but latter I will post hear my videos and photos.
What the fuck, my 360 was bricked for 2 months and now I'm playing again. I spent 30 minutes and US$0.25.
I really don't now why it's working, if it's because it bend/flex the motherboar or if it pressure bad solder joints of the memory. I don't know for how long it will work but nothing fixed my 360 until now.
We only have to discover WHY it's functioning again to made this last forever.