Print

[handles25]

QUOTE(shaggzz @ Mar 23 2007, 08:39 PM)

Yes.  The stock heatsink isn't very smooth.  Lots of small ridges exist.  As Kurto said, this process could be skipped.  However, I ran into the cheap sandpaper and realized it couldn't hurt.

Kurto:  You are correct on the thermal compound install.  For whatever reason, I didn't think it could spread out by itself.  Obviously, i was incorrect.  

Thanks for clearing that up.

[RBJTech]

Slighly off topic .. but has anyone ever produced any scientific evidence that 'lapping' a heatsink actually provides any better heat transfer ?  I was under the impression that any slight differences on the surface would be taken up by the paste - the primary reason for it in the first place ?  Just interested, I've never done it ... could never see the need.

[RDC]

Lapping decreases the amount of paste needed, so ya have more area in contact from the die to the sink, in theory. It's all over PC forums the different techniques and results, but it's nothing that would make most people spend the time on it to do it properly, and everyones results still vary.

[shaggzz]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Mar 23 2007, 05:08 PM)

Slighly off topic .. but has anyone ever produced any scientific evidence that 'lapping' a heatsink actually provides any better heat transfer ?  I was under the impression that any slight differences on the surface would be taken up by the paste - the primary reason for it in the first place ?  Just interested, I've never done it ... could never see the need.

The thermal conductivity of even arctic silver is 5% - 10% the conductivity of aluminum.  So, the smaller the gaps, the better the conductivity.  However, a best case mirror finish lap is only good for about 2-3 degrees F improvement.  My 20 minute lap probably shaved a degree off.  One reason I did the lap is because I was using the sandpaper regardless to help clean the remainder of stock thermal gunk off the sink.

QUOTE(RDC @ Mar 23 2007, 03:00 PM)

Just because you would use your finger doesn't mean that's how you should spread it. A razor blade or something similar with a straight edge and small enough should be used, not yer finger in a glove either, it won't get spread thinly and evenly at all that way. Either method is perfectly acceptable and the manufacture doesn't always have the only way to "skin the cat" so to speak. If they did, this thread wouldn't exist since the building and cooling jobs M$ did on the 360 would negate it.

I'm thinking the manufacturer recommends doing it this way to avoid user error.  A few years back I used to always see it recommended to spread it out paper thin.  I hadn't ever seen the blob method until I saw the arctic silver site.  Anyways, when spreading it out, many people would apply too much.  By doing the simple blob, it works fine and is easy to convey to the end user the correct amount.

[brywalker]

QUOTE(Kurto2021 @ Mar 23 2007, 09:00 PM)

No offense but I am going to take the word of the manufacturer on how to install it.  If you do spread it though don't use your finger unless you have a plastic glove.  They specifically state that the oils and stuff from your finger can affect performance when they explain how to install arctic silver 1,2, and 3.

And...you're wrong!

You have to spread it evenly on any chip that has AN EXPOSED CORE. If it has a heat spreader, you do the small dot and let the heatsink spread it.

[dokworm]

On PCs I get about a 6 degree temperature drop, but those heatsinks are way better to start with than the CPU heatsink surface (the GPU HS seems OK).

I was just pointing out that the CPU heatsink is extremely grooved and nowhere near flat on the ones I have seen, so it either needs to be lapped (no need to get down to a mirror finish, just flatten it out) or you need a bit more thermal paste to make sure you are filling the deep grooves.
If you have a heatspreader and you do the 'dot in the middle' thing, then it will work OK if your HS is very smooth, if it has lots of deep parallel grooves then sometimes it doesn't spread properly.

[RBJTech]

Cheers guys - maybe it is worth doing then, only if it does knock a few degress off... I'll do a bit more R&D on the PC forums on how to do it 'properly..' ..

[lawdawg0931]

@dokworm & others

Thank you so much for putting this info out on the forum. My 360 has been doa - heat gun fixed - doa - fixed again...then of course DOA! It's been sitting for about a month, not sure what I was gonna do with it. Saw the info regarding this design flaw, threw away the "X" clamps, got the #5 10mm bolts and fiber washers, a little artic silver & whala! The other important thing I did (thinking this part really helped) was powered on to get the three lights (without the fans plugged in), then waited for it to go to two lights (overheated). I let this go exactly 2 minutes, turned it off & let it cool off. Put everything back together, and damned if it didn't boot right up. Played NFS Carbon right where I left off months ago. Can only hope that this will take care of the problem permanantly. Again, thank you so much for sharing your info, that's what makes a forum work for all.

[dokworm]

Glad it worked, I too am hopeful this creates a permanent fix - time will tell...

Yeah I strongly recommend that one does either the towel trick or the disconnected fans trick until the #RLOD goes away *before* clamping. (I'd rather do those than the heat gun as they are far less risky than heatgunning)

That way you are clamping a 'working' system, rather than trying to clamp a non working system into submission.

[N00bvin]

I'm going on the record to say that this is "THE" fix for the 3 Red Lights failure.  I have a system purchased at launch and it's been a solid performer... that is, until about 3 days ago when it finally failed (screen freeze, artifacting, then RLOD).

After reading a little I came across the "towel trick" and this thread.  Both makes complete sense, but with this being a "recent" failure, I wanted to try this without using the towel trick.  I think this would prove that this could be used as a "proactive" trick.  That is, if you're not having issues, and you do this NOW, you'll avoid future issues.  I truly believe that it's the "warping" of that area by the X-clamps.

With that being the case, I would imagine that the failure rate is probably close to 100% (I'm curious whether horizontal or vertical orientation makes a difference), and it's just a "matter of time."

After installing the fix in this thread (the most difficult part is removing the original X-clamps... BE CAREFUL!), I've been stress testing for about 6 hours, with no issues to report.  Basically this fix flat out works... I used no towel trick or heatgun, and still have had success.  I agree with the OP that that may be a good initial first step, but for me it was unnecessary.  

Thanks for this thread, and the fantastic fix... and boo to MS for giving me a great gaming machine that has such a design flaw!!!

[sirsmooth]

Someone really needs to make a decent detailed tutorial on this, it would get thousands of hits.

It seems a pretty easy job but when there ae no pictures and 5-6 people saying 'I used this legnth bolt', 'I used these washers' etc etc people start getting thrown offtrack.
If they can see pictures and a detailed 'howto' they would realise anything that size/shape/material will work.

Great find Dokworm and thanks for the pictures Kurto

Hopefully this is THE fix

Smooth

[dokworm]

I finally got another dead 360 to fix, so will do a tutorial with pics over the next few days.

[nightmare84j28]

Please do, dokworm  

Throw in a couple of hundred pics  

[Kurto2021]

didn't I post pictures earlier in this thread?  What is the problem with them.  Tell me the pictures you want and I will take more.

http://www.oareplay.com/xbox

you might want to clean up the chips a little more .... I didn't take pictures at the very final stage.  I can take it apart and start over if you want

[sirsmooth]

How thick are those washers Kurto?
Bottom and top ones the same thickness?

I just ordered 100 m5 12mm screws

Cheers Smooth