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[dokworm]

QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Mar 2 2007, 06:34 AM)

@Elemino -

You have to factor in the quality of the PCB that is used to produce the 360 motherboards. Its poor. Some PC motherboards cost more than the 360 itself and are of far higher quality componentry. The 360 is a high volume, mass produced product that is made as cheaply as possible because it is made at a loss to the supplier (MS).

You aren't comparing apples with apples.

True, so even *more* reason to peg the board down properly to prevent flexing.

I still haven't had a single problem since replacing the clamping mechanism - so far so good.

[dokworm]

I have ordered the talismoon replacement rear fans though, better to be safe than sorry
50% more air moved, drawing less current *and* making less noise sounds like a good deal.

[dokworm]

QUOTE(dokworm @ Mar 7 2007, 12:03 AM)

I have ordered the talismoon replacement rear fans though, better to be safe than sorry
50% more air moved, drawing less current *and* making less noise sounds like a good deal.

Still not a single glitch since replacing the heatsink clamps, had a 15hr straight session with GoW, and my eyes are now bleeding but the console is fine

I put the talismoon fans in and they are just GREAT.

I also got the XCM fan , but it sucks hairy balls, doesn't move much air and sounds like a hurricane

[dokworm]

I've started fixing other people's 360s using this method, and we haven't had a single failure yet. If any Aussies want me to have a go at fixing theirs, let me know and I'd be happy to give it a shot.

[steddyman]

I'm not sure what you mean by using Pegs.  I have fitted lots of PC boards and CPU's, but can't visualize what you are describing.

Can you take a picture for us to make it clearer what is involved?

Thanks

[swdxr12]

Hi, I have tried a similar method to yours (using screws and nuts to secure the heatsink and motherboard to the case) and have fixed the 3 red lights but occasionally I still get freezing problems. It seems that you are having a good success rate and I am interested in applying your technique to see if I can fix the screen freezes. Please can you post pictures so that I can copy EXACTLY what you have done.

[alucard_xs]

Hi dudes,

this debate seems interesting please share your thougts and post some pics

Thanks  

[dokworm]

QUOTE(swdxr12 @ Mar 10 2007, 06:30 PM)

Hi, I have tried a similar method to yours (using screws and nuts to secure the heatsink and motherboard to the case) and have fixed the 3 red lights but occasionally I still get freezing problems. It seems that you are having a good success rate and I am interested in applying your technique to see if I can fix the screen freezes. Please can you post pictures so that I can copy EXACTLY what you have done.

Next 360 I fix I'll take some pictures, I will need to borrow a camera.

Steddyman, by pegs I mean like on a PC motherboard. You have brass pegs (or plastic spacers) between the PC case and the motherboard. i.e. the things you screw the motherboard onto, that keep it up off the case.

To give more detail, basically I find the faulty balls, reflow so that they are not faulty any more. Then apply new thermal paste and spacer dots to the corners of the two chips (to apply some pressure from the heatsink onto the corners of the chips. I got the idea from old athlon chips where they used to do this)

Then drill holes in the baseplate and put motherboard support pegs into the base metal plate of the case I sue plastic ones cut to size. I put rubber 'cone' supports under the centre of the GPU and CPU (between the metal baseplate and the bottom of the mobo)

I then screw down the heatsinks and use spring washers so that I can tighten and then ease off a bit so as not to overtighten. I fit talismoon fans at the back to help keep the heat under control and in some cases fit a fan to the CPU cooling tower. (I tried the XCM fan but it is insanely loud).

I would love one of the aftermarket companies to release a kit to do something like this so you could do it to your 360 *before* it fails.

I'm not claiming this is the perfect solution, just that it has worked so far on 360s where the towel fix or toothpick fix or airgun fix only gave a really short term fix.

Things I haven't done but think I should are fit bigger feet to the 360 to get ventilation in from underneath, and put some ventilation in the top.
But I'd like a clear case so I could follow the airflow with a fogger to make sure the mods were actually moving the air where it should go and not amking the situation worse.

[steddyman]

Thanks for the detailed explanation.  I am still not 100% sure on some of those points, but its definetly clearer.

It would be fantastic if you could do a step by step process including photos that we could put up in the tutorial section.

When you said you reball them, are you doing that using a soldering iron or are you simply reflowing with a heatgun?

I already have the Talismoon fans fitted and the XCM fan (yes its LOUD) and also a laptop cooler sat underneath.  It does lockup less than it used to, but it still locks and went three times in two hours the other night.

Where are you based?  I wondering if this is something you could offer me as a service.  I'm in the UK.

[dokworm]

I'd love to help but I am in Australia.

I don't reball them, I just reflow if I can. I went and bought a cheap ($150) rework station, but I have actually found I sometimes get better results by just running it with the fans off and a bit of weight on the corner of the chips.
You can tell by looking close up wether the solder has remelted or not.

If it is still locking up I'd recheck your thermal paste is still good, if you don't lap the heatsink the CPU needs a lot of paste, the ones I have seen are really rough. I'd also try to see on your board exactly which connections are faulty and try to reflow somehow if you can.

[CaZpeR]

My Xbox 360 just had the Three Red Rings (of death). And I must say I am very confused. The first time this happened, the whole box would not respond. It just blinked. Fair enough. Since I have flashed my Xbox 360 (and it is passed one year (and I live in EU)) then my warranty doesn't cover this one so I decided to do nothing at all.

I mean. It has been standing in the same spot since I got the Red Lights. Then I suddenly thought: "maybe not just try it one more time?" after a couple of weeks. Then it worked flawlessly. I mean, I could play games, watch DVD for hours, turn the unit off and on and no red lights. And it worked for about 2-3 more weeks. Yesterday it died on me again. But the strange thing is. I turn it on using the Universal Remote control. See the red lights and I can turn the unit off again with the remote (which I think is strange since they say this is hardware failiure.).

But if that the first post here is the case, I could give it a try if you want? I'm just not entirely sure what you mean. Do you mean the screws that attach the heat sinks to the mobo or the "X"'es holding them?

Kind regards. CaZpeR

[dokworm]

There is nothing odd about still being able to turn the unit on and off when it is in 3 lights of death mode.

I remove the Xs that are under the board completely.

[brywalker]

I haven't gotten the red lights yet, but I am getting lockups almost every time I play. I am going to dig in soon and try some stuff, but I fear I will do more damage than good.

I think that a GPU heatsink replacement is absolutely paramount. I have no idea why they even went with aluminum there, that is just about the most retarded thing ever. I know the close proximity to the CPU heatsink causes issues, as well as the height to the DVD drive, but has anyone tried to fit a video card cooler on it like a Zalman or something? I was thinking the VF900-Cu but I think that the holes may be too far apart.

Someone needs to come out with something quick. It needs to be copper, NOT cover the 2 RAM chips on the side and not have an X clamp for install.

dokworm: Would we be able to acheve the same results by using a screw with a plastic washer coming from the bottom and use a nut (or other such screw down type) on the top of the sink to torque it down? I have done this with a few PCs on the Northbridge/Southbridge. Or do you think it will be too much pressure on the holes of the board?

[dokworm]

If you use the correct thread bolts then there is no need for a nut on the top, you can screw straight into the existing thread.

Your suggestion works just fine, but you need to be really careful not to over torque the bolts. One way is to use a spring washer, screw it down till the washer flattens out and then back it off until the washer starts to expand again, that way you know it isn't insanely tight.
Alternatively you could use those rubber/neoprene whatever washers people use to isolate vibration on their hard drives I guess.

Either way it pays to do the simple trick of running without the fans first to at least have a chance of the solder joints becoming a little better and then clamp it, or clamp it and run without the fans.

Ideally you want to put something on the corner of the chips, like a compressible heatpad that will transfer the heatsink downwards pressure to the perimeter of the CPU and GPU instead of it being just on the centre of the chips. It is the corners that tend to lift, not the centre.

I had a Lost Planet marathon last night (about 10hrs straight with occasional pee breaks) on the console that we only did the bolts from the bottom of the board up into the heatsink and didn't get a single issue.

Other interesting aside, the ones we have bolted down don't seem to make as much fan noise as the one unopened 360 that we were linked to. I wonder if the better thermal paste and better clamping means they don't get quite as hot?

[dokworm]

I'm using pads like on the old athlons, like these.
(IMG:http://www.fumph.com/ryo_daw/images/athlon_cpu1.jpg)