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[Derfuhrer]

What happened to throwing out the design flawed X clamps (as per all methods..I use RBJtech's and heat gun) and using crews and washers? Why bother with the clamps, will they not bend over time again..whereas screws and wahers will not be effected by the heat build up?

[Lugnut]

QUOTE(Derfuhrer @ Nov 5 2008, 02:49 AM)

What happened to throwing out the design flawed X clamps (as per all methods..I use RBJtech's and heat gun) and using crews and washers? Why bother with the clamps, will they not bend over time again..whereas screws and wahers will not be effected by the heat build up?

The only design flaw of the x clamps is that all the pressure goes to a pinpoint under the board. If that black piece of plastic in the middle of the xclamp was expanded to at least the size of the BGA chip you would get equal pressure from the bottom to the top, this would cancel out any uneven pressure on the mobo itself to stop it from bending.  The current xclamp fix's with washers and bolts, does the exact opposite of what the original xclamp and heat has caused.  Instead of the edges of the mobo around the gpu bending downward away from the chip. the fix now leaves the center of the mobo with no support from below. as you tighten the bolts the heatsink bends the mobo in the opposite direction.  Since the center solder balls on the gpu most likely are still intact and fine. the mobo bends the otherway causing reconnection of the outter balls.  But eventually the heat cycles will start causing other solder  balls to break.  In any case no matter what, there are solder balls not making proper connections and there probably will never be a permanent fix.  However there might be a permanent prevention fix. If you were to do this before the solder balls are overly stressed.  By simply modifying the xclamps to apply the center pressure on the mobo at at least the same size as the GPU from above.  That leads you to the problem of all the little resistors and capacitors in the way on the bottom of the mobo. So as someone previously stated use a semi hard material that can allow for the little parts to indent into the material.  My method is similar to this and i wont bother going into details because it's so radical from other methods. I have read,alot of those threads and I don't feel like defending myself from flammers. But it accomplishes the task of this thread. Although I can't really testify how well it works on already rrod'd systems because i do it as prevention.  I still have ones as far back as 06 that are still working with this method + 9v gpu fan mod. 12v mod is too loud, and even both fans at 9v was a bit loud for me and friends so we went with just the one fan modded.

[BJTECH]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Mar 9 2007, 03:44 AM)

Worryingly in the above pic of the X-clamps - it doesn't look like they have ANY centre plastic bit to create leverage - maybe it's the pic ?  The clamps should have a plastic bit on them as standard that slots into the centre piece - I guess people are just adding to this to increase the pressure.
Technically speaking, it's the other way around - the clamps are pressing on the back of the motherboard, forcing the GPU/CPU onto the FIXED heatsink ...

I have done the normal X-clamp fix and it stopped working is their any fix again?

[yaywoop]

QUOTE

The only design flaw of the x clamps is that all the pressure goes to a pinpoint under the board. If that black piece of plastic in the middle of the xclamp was expanded to at least the size of the BGA chip you would get equal pressure from the bottom to the top, this would cancel out any uneven pressure on the mobo itself to stop it from bending. The current xclamp fix's with washers and bolts, does the exact opposite of what the original xclamp and heat has caused. Instead of the edges of the mobo around the gpu bending downward away from the chip. the fix now leaves the center of the mobo with no support from below. as you tighten the bolts the heatsink bends the mobo in the opposite direction. Since the center solder balls on the gpu most likely are still intact and fine. the mobo bends the otherway causing reconnection of the outter balls. But eventually the heat cycles will start causing other solder balls to break. In any case no matter what, there are solder balls not making proper connections and there probably will never be a permanent fix. However there might be a permanent prevention fix. If you were to do this before the solder balls are overly stressed. By simply modifying the xclamps to apply the center pressure on the mobo at at least the same size as the GPU from above. That leads you to the problem of all the little resistors and capacitors in the way on the bottom of the mobo. So as someone previously stated use a semi hard material that can allow for the little parts to indent into the material. My method is similar to this and i wont bother going into details because it's so radical from other methods. I have read,alot of those threads and I don't feel like defending myself from flammers. But it accomplishes the task of this thread. Although I can't really testify how well it works on already rrod'd systems because i do it as prevention. I still have ones as far back as 06 that are still working with this method + 9v gpu fan mod. 12v mod is too loud, and even both fans at 9v was a bit loud for me and friends so we went with just the one fan modded.

I totally agree with you lugnut.

i think i have done a similar thing to you

my xbox was rrod-ing for the second time after the xclamp 'fix.' so i thought i would replace the xclamps, and mod them to apply even pressure
I used a scrap of fibreglass circuit board with some 1.5mm balsa wood underneath, cut to the size of the gpu. the resistors sink into the balsa nicely and i cut a hole for the large smd capacitor.
i removed the little black plastic thing from the x clamp and replaced it with a washer.

so basically the xclamp now pushes down on a washer which pushes down the piece of fibreglass board which is padded by the balsa which applies even pressure to the motherboard over the entire area of the gpu.

its still going strong after 4 hours of farcry 2... hopefully it will hold up indefinitely.

I think this is worth another thread. it appears to be a LOT better than xclamp replacement.

(IMG:http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa189/yaywoop/realxclampfix.jpg)

This post has been edited by yaywoop: Nov 5 2008, 06:11 PM

[Lugnut]

Yes, I dont know how its going to work though that it has already rrod'd for you. the solder ball that is disconnected will slowly grind away during every thermal cycle till it disconnects again. But i think you've got it pretty close to getting the system to last as long as possible.  How well does balsa wood transfer heat though? I use materials that have good thermal transfer abilities, as i know the bottom of the mobo under the gpu gets quite warm.

[yaywoop]

QUOTE(Lugnut @ Nov 6 2008, 10:19 AM)

Yes, I dont know how its going to work though that it has already rrod'd for you. the solder ball that is disconnected will slowly grind away during every thermal cycle till it disconnects again. But i think you've got it pretty close to getting the system to last as long as possible.  How well does balsa wood transfer heat though? I use materials that have good thermal transfer abilities, as i know the bottom of the mobo under the gpu gets quite warm.

I don't see why it would grind away, finally the gpu has even pressure on it, so even with overheating the  connections will still be pushed together.
also before i put the xclamps back with pcb/balsawood i loosened all the screws for the gpu heatsink and let it overheat (this is what i had to regularly do to get the box working) so the solder balls should be bonded.
it might also be a good idea to do the heat gunning method, then apply this xclamp mod

the balsa wood is a pretty good insulator, but not much heat is supposed to be dissapated by the bottom of the board - that's what the heatsink is for. I chose balsa wood because it is soft but at the same time will be rigid and able to apply pressure and it also doesn't conduct electricity and won't be affected by heat (or at least the 50-60 degrees that the gpu gets to)

I also have the gpu fan running at 9V

I will post back if it does fail again. but i am determined to fix this problem once and for all. and as far as i can see this is the perfect solution because there are no uneven forces on the gpu

[yaywoop]

I added the image above. I think i used 2mm balsa not 1.5mm
and the pcb isn't cut to size, not that it matters.

I also made some ghetto ramsinks out of some aluminium sheet, which actually work really well. i can feel the transferred heat when the fans are not on. they are stuck on with thin double sided tape

(IMG:http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa189/yaywoop/ramsink.jpg)

[Lugnut]

is that double sided  thermal tape? otherwise it could end up retaining alot of heat.  I'll let ya in on one of my little secrets. years ago when we would try to overclock pc cpu's we sometimes would put very large heatsinks on that wouldnt fit the retaining mechanism of the board. So we went to thermal adhesive, ummm ok maybe not, actually we went to jb weld. It conducts heat well and is not conductive.  So you can use that on the ram chips, very very thin layer though.  I have a 0102 mobo here. I will jbweld around its edges kinda like ms did with the newer mobo's after it dries i'll try to heat gun it ( in hopes that the jbweld can help keep the mobo from flexing at the gpu with the extreme heat), but i already know jb weld can only handle about 300c and might not make it through the process.  In which case I'll chip it away. heatgun the gpu again until the board works and then try to jbweld it and do the modified xclamp and see what happens. I'll post findings as i go.

[yaywoop]

no just normal double sided tape. it is better than nothing though
jb weld sounds like a good idea

[Lugnut]

yaywoop, Ive done the 0102 board. I'll post in your other thread since it's closer related to that one.

[MarkieT]

Hi all,


I thought I'd bring this topic back (if people don't mind) and possibly see how long their 360's laster after this fix?


Just that I've got the 0102 error now myself and was thinking of trying the Heatgun fix, but would be interested to know if this fix fixed it completely?


Many thanks



MarkT.

[MacK3]

QUOTE(MarkieT @ Feb 28 2009, 02:51 AM)

Hi all,
I thought I'd bring this topic back (if people don't mind) and possibly see how long their 360's laster after this fix?
Just that I've got the 0102 error now myself and was thinking of trying the Heatgun fix, but would be interested to know if this fix fixed it completely?
Many thanks
MarkT.

well, i still classify the heatgun reflow as last hope resource (i mean that you have already money for another xbox and don't give a shit about that one).

anyway that method is used also in the hybrid tutorial, there's a good theory about pressure made on the board and the tutorial tries to flex the mobo as less as possible grinding down some metal chassis parts. i suggest to try following this one, if you have success good for you. if not take in consideration about buying a new xbox and having your old one as replacement parts (or sell them on ebay).

gl