Topic: GPU Reballing (Read 526 times)

RBJTech · « **Reply #45 on:** February 07, 2007, 10:04:00 AM »

QUOTE(SMTRework @ Jan 26 2007, 04:31 PM)

Hello,

My full writeup can be seen here:

XBOX 3 Red Light Problem

I'd like to see some temperature analysis on this fan solution - as in my opinion, it does not provide sufficient cooling as the exhaust from the CPU/GPU will just heat up the whole Xbox ... ?

SMTRework · « **Reply #46 on:** February 07, 2007, 10:59:00 AM »

Hello everyone,

As requested by RDC in the past, here is a short video of the actual solder ball under the CPU where the problem lies with these 3RL 360's. The solder ball being shown in the video is of the CPU corner located on the side of the CPU facing the GPU toward the front of the system (as outlined in my report)

In the video to the right of the solder ball is the metal pointed probe used to apply the "lift" motion to that corner. At the top of the solder ball is the chip side and the bottom of the solder ball is the motherboard side.

CPU BGA Lifting Video

In this case, the actual solder pad (adhered to the motherboard) is torn..(lifting with the ball) or in the rework world called a "Torn Pad" in this case micro welding of the pad would have to happen once the chip is removed.

Once again, nothing under a $200 repair bill would be appropriate with this type of repair with all the work involved.

Tortuga2112 · « **Reply #47 on:** February 08, 2007, 01:07:00 AM »

hey SMTRework,

can you tell me how you wired up the fans. I was getting 12v power from a fan header I installed in front of the CPU heatsink.

I wanted to put another fan in the box like this fan under the xbox

but I'm not exactly sure how I should wire it .

ideally I would like to run two fans off the front fan header. that shouldn't be a problem right?

thanks.

davidrose9 · « **Reply #48 on:** February 10, 2007, 07:24:00 AM »

QUOTE(SMTRework @ Feb 7 2007, 10:29 AM)

SMTRepair, I loved your article on Console Realms, but left me with some questions.

You say that reballing on 360 like BlackOmega posted would not be possible once the melting temperature of the solder used on the GPU is over 210°C and the component wouldn't survive such temperature, therefore you can't use the same component on a reballing job on the XBOX 360.
etc....
It's always expected to have people criticize one's theory and logic behind one's findings but please, if someone's going to make an assumption or even statement suggesting otherwise, please ask them for their credentials and or what underline proof they have that can support their findings or statement.
Joe / SMTRework

Now seems the time to ask this, I hope youll tell me, can this be prevented by a cooling fan system of some sort I am using nyco intercooler is this going to help at all the thing is noisy as hell but if this new 360 lasts longer then my last boat anchor did then I suppose I am committed. NO Refunds being offered by M$ thus far.

Consolerealm · « **Reply #49 on:** February 10, 2007, 10:36:00 AM »

QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Feb 8 2007, 03:14 AM)

hey SMTRework,

can you tell me how you wired up the fans. I was getting 12v power from a fan header I installed in front of the CPU heatsink.

I wanted to put another fan in the box like this fan under the xbox

but I'm not exactly sure how I should wire it .

ideally I would like to run two fans off the front fan header. that shouldn't be a problem right?
thanks.

I'll take this one. It will depend on the amp draw of the fan. Example I have (2) 12v 50mm fans from Sunon that draw .37amps together(.80A Combined marked amp draw value). So safely if you use under half an amp you'll be ok without taskin the units PSU. If you did the rear fan 12v mod as well you will be looking at a combined amp draw about .75amps (1.2A based on marked amp draw values). I would try and keep it under 1 amp or you be asking for PSU failure do to the extra load. PSU rated amp value is 12v @16.5amps. Hope that clears that up a little.

QUOTE(davidrose9 @ Feb 10 2007, 09:31 AM)

Now seems the time to ask this, I hope youll tell me, can this be prevented by a cooling fan system of some sort I am using nyco intercooler is this going to help at all the thing is noisy as hell but if this new 360 lasts longer then my last boat anchor did then I suppose I am committed. NO Refunds being offered by M$ thus far.

Not with the Nyko alone you still need to do the heatsink compound mod (Artic Silver 5) for both CPU and GPU, along with a fan being mounted on the front of CPU heatsink forcing air though it towards the exhuast fans. But unfortionatly this only will prolong the 360 as failure in inevitable due to the system's design.

Check this arcticle out and scroll to the bottom it shows a few cooling mods.

RDC · « **Reply #50 on:** February 10, 2007, 01:03:00 PM »

You can source more than 1A off the 12v rail and not kill the PSU, if you couldn't, all internal water cooled setups wouldn't have been done. Most pumps pull 1.5A~3A alone and draw more than that starting up. The thing about the Fan Header mod is, even though it goes right to the 12v rail is (if the 12v mod was done) your limited by the thickness and with of the trace there, so 1A max is all I'd pull of just that spot. In short, yes a couple of fans isn't gonna hurt a thing powered from the Fan Header mod, and as Consolerealm pointed out, be aware of the fans power ratings. Also take into consideration what else you have powered internally and how much current it all draws as well, the little things can start to add up quick.

Tortuga2112 · « **Reply #51 on:** February 11, 2007, 03:47:00 PM »

thanks guys ,

I'm going to stick a fan under the box . I'll be getting power from under the motherboard by the
power plug. I'll post some pics when its done.

davidrose9 · « **Reply #52 on:** February 12, 2007, 05:10:00 PM »

Thanks alot for great info what do you think about this I found with a separate power supply adapter, not using the USB?
http://www.hardwarec...ling_Pad?ref=44

dokworm · « **Reply #53 on:** February 22, 2007, 06:03:00 PM »

I got the video microscope out and my CPU doesn't appear to have any bad connections but the GPU has one on one corner. Pushing on the corner of the GPU allows normal startup, slight upward pressure on the same corner causes the 3 leds of death.

So it may not always be the cpu at fault.

Not seeming to have any other option I heated the entire board in the oven and then kept heat underneath the board while heatgunning the top. The GPU now sits flat and I don't get an error. The solder ball that was broken appears to be flatter so maybe it worked?
I'm going to do as suggested and drill holes in the case and screw the heatsinks through the board rather than have the board be the 'tensioning device' for the heatsink clamp.

I'll see how long that lasts.

That fan setup looks cool, but I'm not convinced the side mounted fan would evac the case fast enough.
I'd be more inclined to mount a fan directly on the side of the CPU tower pushing air through it towards the dual fans at the back. You would really need to put temp probes in to assess any cooling mods, airflow can be trickier than you'd think, you can add more fans and end up with a hotter unit.

dokworm · « **Reply #54 on:** February 22, 2007, 09:03:00 PM »

QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Feb 11 2007, 11:54 PM)

thanks guys ,

I'm going to stick a fan under the box . I'll be getting power from under the motherboard by the
power plug. I'll post some pics when its done.

I don't think extra cooling is the solution, I think you will have to change the clamping mechanism for the heatsink, currently it pushes all its force upwards right in the centre of the chip, but the motherboard is only held down right at the far corners, this makes the motherboard want to 'flex away' from the centre of the heatsink clamps which probably causes the problem.

Changing the heatsink clamping mechanism will probably be a more reliable long term fix.

T Ghost · « **Reply #55 on:** February 24, 2007, 09:43:00 PM »

Ok, the Brazilian technician who claims he sucessfully reballed the X360 GPU made 2 vídeos (19 min) where he says he is showing the whole process and proving SMTRework wrong.

Here are the videos:

http://rapidshare.co...0159/Video1.wmv

http://rapidshare.co...Video2.wmv.html

He doesn't know how to write in English, so I'm bringuing his message here, upon his request.

I didn't watch the videos yet.

It would be interesting if SMTRework could watch them and comment about it.

Thanks.

T Ghost · « **Reply #56 on:** February 24, 2007, 10:08:00 PM »

QUOTE(Consolerealm @ Feb 10 2007, 12:43 PM)

I'll take this one. It will depend on the amp draw of the fan. Example I have (2) 12v 50mm fans from Sunon that draw .37amps together(.80A Combined marked amp draw value). So safely if you use under half an amp you'll be ok without taskin the units PSU. If you did the rear fan 12v mod as well you will be looking at a combined amp draw about .75amps (1.2A based on marked amp draw values). I would try and keep it under 1 amp or you be asking for PSU failure do to the extra load. PSU rated amp value is 12v @16.5amps. Hope that clears that up a little.
Not with the Nyko alone you still need to do the heatsink compound mod (Artic Silver 5) for both CPU and GPU, along with a fan being mounted on the front of CPU heatsink forcing air though it towards the exhuast fans. But unfortionatly this only will prolong the 360 as failure in inevitable due to the system's design.

Check this arcticle out and scroll to the bottom it shows a few cooling mods.

Consolerealm did you realize that what you said at the very last phrase implies on M$ having at least 10 million XBOX 360 dead by sometime 2008?

Just curious...

Tortuga2112 · « **Reply #57 on:** February 25, 2007, 11:23:00 AM »

can anyone put this video on youtube or some other site. I'm having trouble getting it.

I tried to open it but keep getting errors.

Tortuga2112 · « **Reply #58 on:** February 25, 2007, 03:29:00 PM »

I didn't think it would be possible to line up the chip correctly with the motherboard like the way he did it.

is there any other video of him showing the re-balling process?

T Ghost · « **Reply #59 on:** February 25, 2007, 06:12:00 PM »

Tortuga, that's the only video the guy made about the reballing.

The second video shows him putting the MoBo in the case, assembling everything and turning the console on showing it's working ok.

I'll try to upload the 1st video to YouTube.

Author Topic: GPU Reballing (Read 526 times)