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[360enthusiast]

Hi,
was having the red ring problem (0102) and had opened up my 360 and lay all the pieces on my working table.
I wanted to go the "heat gun" way since I'm pretty sure it's the same problem (towel worked when I tried once)

Everything seemed fine so far.  When I got back from work, I wanted to determine what chip could have the bad connection, so I decided to try applying some pressure on the gpu, cpu, etc while running (as mentionned on these boards).

When I turned it on, the fans started then stopped.. but the 3 red lights were still flashing... what's odd is that both the gpu and cpu stayed really cool (as opposed to the last time it did it without the fan, did'nt take long to feel the heat).

Now if I check the code, it's 0003.. ?? Not sure what happen.. kids? cat? myself?... can't say for sure... I looked at the entire board on both sides, and found out that 2 pieces were broken or missing..  near the chip that is not far from the powersupply input, on the back side of the board (there are 3 chips that area, it's the biggest one).  

I wanted to know if it's something that could be fixed or if the board is completely lost?

The numbers near those pieces are R8P5 et C8P3.  Those a really tinny pieces..  can I buy the pieces that should be there somewhere? would a simple soldering run be enough to fix this or is there something more to it?

thanks!

[RDC]

It's a simple repair job for someone that has the parts and has worked with SMT before.

R8P5 is a 7.5k Resistor.

C8P3 is a capacitor that I have no idea what the value is.

For the Resistor you can use any type really, just so long as the value is the same. For the Capacitor, you'll want to get the EXACT same value, since it could be used for timing or who knows what. I just stripped down my board a few days ago, and it wasn't one of those pretty ones where I keep all the parts labeled and know what went where (long story), or I could have sent ya the parts if ya wanted to try to repair it.

(IMG:http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f320/RDCXBG/R8P5_C8P3.jpg)

This post has been edited by RDC: Jan 10 2007, 07:17 AM

[G0t M4xx 21]

If I had a spare motherboard laying around I'd pull off that capacitor and measure it, but unfortunately I currently don't.

If memory serves me correctly, that big chip in the bottom left of the picture (NCP5331) is the power supply controller for the CPU and GPU, which would explain error 0003.

[360enthusiast]

Just knowing it's not "fatal" is good to know! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Thanks for the info about the missing pieces!  Very helpful!

Where could one buy these parts if he does'nt have them? Radio Shack?


Question regarding the capacitor.
Forgive me since it's probably a dumb question, but would it be safe to assume that the C8P4 is the same (it looks the same?) or is this not a good assumption to make since there are no "color code" or anything to differenciate capacitors easily?  Thinking about it.. they all pretty much look the same...  I guess it needs to be measured..  

If any of you happen to come by a naked board, I would really appreciate it if you could do this and tell me the exact type of capacitor that is needed!!

Again, thanks for the great help!!

[RDC]

You wont find anything like them at Rat Shack, you'll have to get them from a thrashed board or an online parts store somewhere, there are loads of places like that.

Going just by the "looks" of that kind of SMT Cap is a right hit or miss, kinda like comparing a red VW to a Ferrari, both are red, both are cars, but have completely different values and substituting one for the other, while working great on the one hand, would be right disastrous on the other. True that another one on the board of the same size might very well be the exact same value, but it might be so far off in value as to cause some other issues.

Make sure ya give the board another go over or two also, If just those are missing consider yourself lucky.

This post has been edited by RDC: Jan 10 2007, 03:49 PM

[360enthusiast]

hehe I see what you mean...

But using the same example, I would'nt mind switching my VW for the Ferrari... at all!! But going the opposite way would piss me off for sure!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Would putting a larger capacity one (like the ferrari's engine vs the VW one)  do the same for the board or is there as much "risks" putting a bigger one as there is putting a smaller one?  I guess it's like the engines and it would use to much power...


anyways.. I'm just curious.. and don't know much about all this.. lol! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by 360enthusiast: Jan 10 2007, 06:07 PM

[RDC]

But ya wouldn't want the Ferrari if all you were doing was driving it to and from work.  (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It depends on what type of circuit it's in as to how much of a difference it makes. If it were used as a smoothing   Cap then a different value one wouldn't hurt that much. However, if it's some kind of timing circuit a small value change in it will throw that all out of whack. You may even be able to leave it out and it not make any difference at all, it just depends.

After looking at the ICs datasheet:

That missing Resistor goes to one of the Current Sensing Inputs of the chip there (NCP5331), that's for sure one reason it's not starting up. The value of that Cap could probably be a little off and you'd be fine. Going by the datasheet for the IC in a "typical" layout the Caps value is 0.1uF and that's probably what it is. If I were to take a "shot in the dark" that's the value I'd go with, but I honestly wouldn't stick anything in there until I had it double checked from a good one and knew for sure, or was out of other options and decided to go for it.

I'd wait and see if G0t M4xx 21 gets a board and can measure one up for ya, or at the least concurs with the "typical" value for it before taking a stab at it, so to speak.

This post has been edited by RDC: Jan 10 2007, 07:01 PM

[360enthusiast]

Hehehe.. that's true! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks, very "enlightening"!!

Been looking around a bit and most of the online stores sell in bundles.. so I guess I will en up buying a batch of resistors and capacitors.. at least I get a little more info on what I should be looking for (7.5k res and ~0.1uF +/-  caps)



I guess patience is my friend then.. if you would'nt do it, I sure won't try it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I hope G0t M4xx 21 (or someone else around here) can come  up with some accurate measurement for this little cap.

This post has been edited by 360enthusiast: Jan 10 2007, 07:15 PM

[360enthusiast]

After a lot of "looking around", I really think I'm "lucky"...  looks like it's the only pieces that are "missing"..
but I also found the res.. but it looks like the cap is nowhere to be found.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Here's a picture of my board (pieces look are a bit different from yours).
(IMG:http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o256/blastermaster101/mobo.jpg)


Here's another but from the resistance I found on the floor right under my desk. I wonder if it's still good?
(IMG:http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o256/blastermaster101/res.jpg)

[RDC]

It's the same layout, just a little different Resistors, those are "Precision Resistors" they have a tighter tolerance, around 2%, than other Resistors which are typically 5%.

If you have a multi meter and a couple of really steady hands you can test it to see if it's still 7.5k in value. Use some masking tape to hold the thing in place, those little things can go flying across the room when checking them, never to be seen again. Alternatively, you can solder a wire on one end or the other so ya have something to help hold onto and keep track of it.

Now here's the crappy news, I see that the "pad"  (part of the trace the SMT component sits on and is soldered to,the  little silver squares) has been lifted and a little bit of trace pulled up there for the Cap as well. That will need to be either repaired or the trace wired to the other side of the Cap once it's reinstalled, so the "fix" just got a little harder.

The Cap was for sure ripped off the board in some fashion, it's the only way it could have lifted the trace the way it did. The Resistor also looks to have been forced from the board, the weird thing is ya usually see the tool mark from whatever snagged them and did the damage on the board as well, since it usually digs a nice groove in it leading up to or after tearing off the parts, but I don't see that on your board. They could also have been some "on the edge" solder joints as well and just let go when you were moving the board around also.

[360enthusiast]

Ouch... ok.. now it's way behond my under average knowledge of electronics.. hehe..


I was willing to give it a shot and try to solder back the res and cap.. while looking around to get a replacement system (just the console)...  but with the last news.. and because my pc video card just died... talk about luck!!!(at least I'll be ready for DX 10! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )  I will have to invest this money on a new one instead..  so I think I'll look around my place and try to find a "professionnal" who could do this for a small fee...

Thanks, anyways.. I'll come back once/if it gets fixed and show you how it looks to see if the guy did a decent job! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)