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[sk8adio]

i have error cod 0200 i have no clue on hat 2 do any options or help??

[Tortuga2112]

QUOTE(bojngles @ Mar 2 2007, 06:13 PM)

I know you arent going to like this but a heatgun is only a temp fix.  You could try and use the heatgun but be VERY careful you dont burn those chips.  You will need a BGA reflow machine.  They range from a few thousand to tens of thousands and more.  I recently acquired someone with one to do these repairs.  Its a much more guaranteed fix with little chance of messing up the board.

earlier you said you did 100 consoles and they're still going strong. how long has the longest running one been going for?

how much is the guy with the BGA reflow machine charging you? is he removing the chip and re-balling them ?

[Tortuga2112]

can anyone think of any kind of high heat epoxy that could be put on the corners of the GPU/CPU prior to putting the heatsinks back , just a little dab to make sure the corners don't lift away from the M/B.

I was even thinking of putting a little bit of solder on the heat sinks where the corners of the chips are. so when you put the heat sinks back they press directly on the corners.

I think if we can put enough pressure on the chips corners so it can't flex away from the board it'll last longer.what do you guys think?

[pimpmaul69]

QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Mar 5 2007, 02:36 AM)

can anyone think of any kind of high heat epoxy that could be put on the corners of the GPU/CPU prior to putting the heatsinks back , just a little dab to make sure the corners don't lift away from the M/B.

I was even thinking of putting a little bit of solder on the heat sinks where the corners of the chips are. so when you put the heat sinks back they press directly on the corners.

I think if we can put enough pressure on the chips corners so it can't flex away from the board it'll last longer.what do you guys think?

(IMG:http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g49/pimpmaul69/Image005.jpg)
(IMG:http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g49/pimpmaul69/Image003.jpg)
(IMG:http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g49/pimpmaul69/Image006.jpg)
heres what ive been using to fix them.. they are 10/32 x 1/2 inch wich is the exact same size as the old screws.. pay attention to the way the heads are shaped... no need for any washers at all..sorry the pics are a little crappy

This post has been edited by pimpmaul69: Mar 5 2007, 03:17 AM

[Tortuga2112]

yes , those screws look like a good alternative , but not what I was thinking.

using those screws will still not help put any pressure on the corners of the chip, just more pressure on the die.

I was thinking about right on the corner of the chip, everyone seems to be in agreement that its most likely the outer balls breaking and not the ones right in the center of the chip.

so I figured that if there was something there, at least it will keep the chip in contact with the board.

[pimpmaul69]

QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Mar 5 2007, 03:27 AM)

yes , those screws look like a good alternative , but not what I was thinking.

using those screws will still not help put any pressure on the corners of the chip, just more pressure on the die.

I was thinking about right on the corner of the chip, everyone seems to be in agreement that its most likely the outer balls breaking and not the ones right in the center of the chip.

so I figured that if there was something there, at least it will keep the chip in contact with the board.

gotcha....

[RBJTech]

QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Mar 5 2007, 01:36 AM)

can anyone think of any kind of high heat epoxy that could be put on the corners of the GPU/CPU prior to putting the heatsinks back , just a little dab to make sure the corners don't lift away from the M/B.

I was even thinking of putting a little bit of solder on the heat sinks where the corners of the chips are. so when you put the heat sinks back they press directly on the corners.

I think if we can put enough pressure on the chips corners so it can't flex away from the board it'll last longer.what do you guys think?

You will not stop thermal expansion with a bit of epoxy - or bolts for that matter, they will just split the board as the weakest link if there is no 'give'.

I don't think anybody truly knows what's causing these solder joints to fail (yet, lots of theorys..) but if it is thermal movement, then making sure the board moves with the chip sounds a better long term solution that trying to fix it all down ?

To minimise thermal expansion of the chip and board in the first place also seems like the best solution - better cooling - there are obviously plenty of 'mods' for keeping the die of the chip cool - but I think I am the only person to date to implement 'underboard' cooling...  

You would be amazed at the amount of heat generated from UNDER the motherboard - I have a radial fan extracting heat from inbetween the two X-clamps (via a 40cm hole cut in the case itself) - the air it extracts is easily as hot as the main exhausts, which IMO, means under the board without this forced extraction is getting rather hot ...

My theory here, is to keep both the chip AND the board and all it's soldered BGA connections as cool as possible to minimise thermal expansion.

If anybody is interested in seeing this setup, then let me know and I'll do some diagrams/pics - there is a pic of the fan in some of my threads, but none on the construction and how it works ...

Regards, Richard.

[dokworm]

QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Mar 5 2007, 03:27 AM)

yes , those screws look like a good alternative , but not what I was thinking.

using those screws will still not help put any pressure on the corners of the chip, just more pressure on the die.

I was thinking about right on the corner of the chip, everyone seems to be in agreement that its most likely the outer balls breaking and not the ones right in the center of the chip.

so I figured that if there was something there, at least it will keep the chip in contact with the board.

It probably will however keep the corners of the board from flexing away from the chip, and you wouldn't need to overtighten it to the point that the board would split.

The amount of movement is tiny, not enough for the board to crack.

[Tortuga2112]

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Mar 5 2007, 10:47 AM)

You will not stop thermal expansion with a bit of epoxy - or bolts for that matter, they will just split the board as the weakest link if there is no 'give'.

I don't think anybody truly knows what's causing these solder joints to fail (yet, lots of theorys..) but if it is thermal movement, then making sure the board moves with the chip sounds a better long term solution that trying to fix it all down ?

To minimise thermal expansion of the chip and board in the first place also seems like the best solution - better cooling - there are obviously plenty of 'mods' for keeping the die of the chip cool - but I think I am the only person to date to implement 'underboard' cooling...  

You would be amazed at the amount of heat generated from UNDER the motherboard - I have a radial fan extracting heat from inbetween the two X-clamps (via a 40cm hole cut in the case itself) - the air it extracts is easily as hot as the main exhausts, which IMO, means under the board without this forced extraction is getting rather hot ...

My theory here, is to keep both the chip AND the board and all it's soldered BGA connections as cool as possible to minimise thermal expansion.

If anybody is interested in seeing this setup, then let me know and I'll do some diagrams/pics - there is a pic of the fan in some of my threads, but none on the construction and how it works ...

Regards, Richard.

I did your fan mod under the xbox. I used a 70mm fan though. blowing into the box. here's the link post #124

I originally had it at 12v but it was wayy too loud, so I switched it to 5v and its much quieter now. the box is very cool now. gaming discs don't even get warm now.

My idea about putting something on the heatsink was just what dokworm was saying. I just wanted a little dab on the corners ,right where the chip meets the heatsink, just to keep it connected to the M/B.

[RBJTech]

It's good to see some of my mad cooling mods being done ..

- A bit off topic ( ) but I couldn't see the motherboard in your underside pic through the fans ... did you cut a hole in the metal case itself, or are you just cooling the bottom of the case ?

This diagram shows what I did to get the actual motherboard itself cooler ...



I have also used a radial fan now to blow the air to the back of the console - I found the axial fan just dumped the heat onto the surface that the xbox was sitting on ... granted better than in the Xbox but not ideal ..

Back on topic - I'm hoping that this will keep the BGA joints themselves cool ...

[Tortuga2112]

yeah , I cut the metal cage. if you look at the close-up pic you'll see the x-clips that hold the heatinks.

I actually have it blowing air into the box , next one I do I think I'll have it pulling the hot air out instead like yours.

I showed some friends the cutout for the fan (the one I copied from you) . everyone liked the design.

it was also much easier than the one I did with all the holes.

[bojngles]

QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Mar 2 2007, 11:08 PM)

earlier you said you did 100 consoles and they're still going strong. how long has the longest running one been going for?

how much is the guy with the BGA reflow machine charging you? is he removing the chip and re-balling them ?

They are mostly working right now to date.  I have gotten only a few back.  I gave one to my friend and he has clocked in almost 100 hours on it so far.    But from all the feedback Ive been getting, I moved over to a bga reflow.  I have 2 full time techs doing reflows for me.  I could choose to have the reballing done but that brings my cost up to over 50 dollars more per unit.

[Tortuga2112]

what temps are they getting the board up to ?

most of the ones I've done , I've got the board up to about 180 C and that works. I have one now that might be fried though, tried it 3 times and no go.  I'm just gonna sell it as parts.

[bojngles]

QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Mar 5 2007, 11:14 PM)

what temps are they getting the board up to ?

most of the ones I've done , I've got the board up to about 180 C and that works. I have one now that might be fried though, tried it 3 times and no go.  I'm just gonna sell it as parts.

I could offer to do a reflow on it and see if it works out.  Pm me if you wanna try it out.

[phoenix risen]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grr.gif) Hello All,
I am a newb ( to 360 ) So let me get right to the point, please excuse my indepth post or interupption of this thread ( i thaught this thread would answer my thaughts).
 Ok I got A 360 that was crashed with the 3 red lights of death from a friend a couple of weeks ago for free... now i tried the heatgun fix 2... now 4 times ( waiting for it to cool as i type.) it work the 2nd time for about three hours then it crashed, ex.. froze then did the 3 red lights again. so i did some mods for cooling... so I did the ol' AS5 grease replacement, then i Shrouded the Heatsinks for better air flow..., added a NYKO intercooler then I cut the CASE Twice one on top like an intake for cool air, the i did the same on the bottom and even cut the steel to cool the MOBO, wired both fans to 12V. and I even added extra heatsinks to the visible ram chips and the south bridge, then i got some Thermal pads, . worked fine. it worked the 2nd time for about three hours then it crashed, ex.. froze then did the 3 red lights again. So I did more research and found out about the process of the BGA array and how M$ oven heats the board for the ease of assembly. and I went into the local electronics store and saw A 360 inside a friggin Plexigalss case with no air flow... and the friggin thing is working all day long w/ no probs. So needless to say i am quite frusterated, because i am doing just about everything to keep this thing cool. would anyone have any input for me besides buying a new one. oh yeah its out of warrantyand i just chopped the GPU heatsink nd dropped the remainder down a couple mm's to get contact with the covered ram chips in an attempt to disipate heat even more. Pictures if you would like me to post them let me know And will gladly post whatever You all want to see on the console. Thank you in advance ..... You all helped me i my first xbox endeavor.

This post has been edited by phoenix risen: Mar 6 2007, 08:04 PM