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[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(MDA @ Nov 17 2006, 06:15 PM)

Sorry it took so long. Traffic was bad tonight.

This is the test done on a system that has a E74 error code. Even with the error the system will still respond to heat.

First pix would be the control. Towel is on to block mainly the CPU HS. Even with the towel on it still takes 2-3 minutes before the temps rise enough to increase the fan voltage.



Next shot gives a better view of the hand towel.



The highest voltage read was around 6.84. I did not get a pix of it since the voltage was jumping around from 6.3 to the 6.84.



The towel allowed for enough air to pass throuh to keep the temps from rising to high. Thats why the temp only went to 6.84.

Last shot is of a few 360s I have laying around for parts.



I also have pix of a system running all the way up to 11 volts. Just don't have time to add them right now. If you need more pix, lemme know.

 

If you could, measure the temp(of whatever, heatsink, core... I don't care I just need a reference) that you see the first rise to the tenth of a volt in fahrenheit. At what temp do you see a half volt? At what temp do you see a full volt? Finally at what temps do you see 7v and 12v? I'm curious of these facts. I will be attampting to reproduce shortly I suppose. I hate to heat up my WORKING 360 chips as I know how transistors dislike getting too warm.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(MDA @ Nov 17 2006, 07:33 PM)

I will see what I can do, but it wont be until monday.

The other set of pix I have are done with a unit that did have an error E73. I fixed the error and then ran the test. That is the one that I let go all the way to 11+ volts.

I can understand you being hesitent to overheat the CPU. However, I have taken 16 units put them all in air tight plastic bags and let them run. Within 10 minutes they all shutdown with 0012 error. When this happens, all power is cut to the system even the fans. After removing them from the bags and waiting less then 5 minutes, every unit was powered back on. All of them booted to the dash and ran for 6 hours on various games. It's simple thermal protection. INTEL was the first to use it. Somewhere on TOMs Hardware guide they have a video showing intel and amd procs running fine, then they remove the heatsink. The intel procs would run for a few then shut off. The AMDs would continue to run to insane temps until the CPU actually melted or caught on fire. I'll see if I can that vid later.

 

I remember that vid well. I used to be a Tomshardware junky . I'm still not totally convinced to be honest... but I won't insult you. I feel that if MS were going to go to the trouble of thermally protecting their chips they would have included protection for the gpu since it is the hottest component in the console. (My cpu doesn't even get luke warm under normal cooling and with no shroud it slowly heats. My gpu runs so hot at all times that you have to not want your finger anymore to touch it more than 3 seconds. Even if they put this "thermal protection in there it's not protecting anything if the temps have to get this high before it starts to increase the fan speed. That's like seeing that you're about to get sideswiped so you wait until impact to accelerate out of the way.

 

I honestly was sold until I went to reproduce the results and saw a few things that were peculiar. None of which were voltage increases. Well... sorta. I thought I had lost my mind when my idle temp was over 13v. That's when I realized how easy it was to fake the results. I forgot you can set any potential as "0" Simply short the leads after that and it will report what ever voltage you set .

 

Make a vid. That way it will be the end of the discussion.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(MDA @ Nov 17 2006, 08:20 PM)

Good Idea. I'll do that on Monday. I'll also do one with no heatsinks.

 

So from what I've seen so far I'm convinced yourself, xboxexpert, gotmaxx, and myself should do this kind of thing for a living. We'll have our own version of tomshardware cept maybe a little less legal in some areas.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(tnbigdawg @ Nov 17 2006, 09:05 PM)

AWSOME JOB MDA!!!

So what the hell BCfosheezy, why is your 360's fan voltage not responding to temperature change? Could it be a lack of a dash update?....(a little off topic now) But I read somewhere that one of the 360's dash updates fixed the problem of the DVD drive constantly running at full speed despite if it's reading intensively or not. I personally can't tell at all and it seems like it still runs at full speed(except after about a few hours of play last night, the drive went into "quite mode" some how on my MS25-xtreme42a during online gaming in GRAW).


Damn, I might try my fan voltages too just to get some backing into this subject. The only thing I can't do is get a thermal reading.

Well hold on now partner... it's not official.

NOBODY'S 360 fan voltage is responding to temperature change. If you have to cover the heatsink up with an insulator and wait several minutes to notice a 1 VOLT CHANGE something is drastically wrong because the chip would be killing itself by the increase would not be enough to adequately cool it anyways. Imagine how hot it would have to get to go to full speed!!! I'm very skeptical of these results because not only are they not practical but he's the only one so far that has EVER came up with them. Myself and xboxexpert are not noobs by any stretch of the imagination. We both testify to the fact that our voltages never change. I performed the same experiment that was done here and got very different results from him. My voltage stayed constant once again. Don't jump to conclusions just yet.... I'd like some temps posted and some other verification. This whole thing is pretty fishy.

[G0t M4xx 21]

BCfosheezy I do not deny that in your case the voltage did not change on your fans, but the 360 CAN change it's fan voltage depending on the temperature of the cpu/gpu.

I have done similar tests as MDA has, and the fans will slowly speed up until the heatsinks get so hot that the console shuts down and displays 2 red lights.

I think the reason you did not see this BC is because your system did not net hot enough for it to have to step up the voltage. However, on other consoles (such as older ones with dust in them), it may need to step up the fan speed to keep temps under control.

Also, just for your viewing pleasure:

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(MDA @ Nov 18 2006, 12:01 AM)

From what I have seen you and I are the only ones to even test it. You have one result and I have another. However I have not questioned your results nor called them fishy. Even though I have pictures from 2 different units both of which show a gradual increase in voltage. As stated before, I will make a vid on monday and can do it to as many units as I want.





Excellent drawing. Thanks for backing me up on this one.

 

I'm going to have to apologize. I really didn't mean the "fishy" comment towards your results. I meant it towards how i got one thing and you got another and we did the same thing. Again, I didn't mean to put you down or slam you in any way. I was simply saying it was too early for me to draw a conclusion since we got very different results from doing the same thing.

[creepyplaidman]

Take off the heatsink on your 360's cpu, then reattach it sideways so that the heatsink can't cool off, reattach it and then turn on your 360, that fan will sound like an aircraft carrier before it hits those double red lights.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(X-hacker @ Nov 18 2006, 02:08 PM)

C'mon children, stop bickering Surely anyone's findings are important when it comes to 'The World' vs 'Micro$oft'. I think most people are clever enough to distinguish between B.S and truth...

 

I don't mean to bicker with MDA as he has no reason to lie and so far I have nothing but respect for him and I hope I didn't insult him.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(MDA @ Nov 20 2006, 07:45 AM)

No insult taken, but I am ready for the flames. lol I forgot my camera at home this morning. So I can't do any vids today. Sorry

 

No flames will come from me. I have no pride involved in this. I just want us to be right and know once and for all.

[MDA]

QUOTE(xboxexpert @ Nov 20 2006, 02:04 PM)

Keep this thread in line people I sorta like where this is going...

I agree. We could use more threads like this.

[MDA]

I was just messing with the fans again and noticed that the volts increase at a rate of .12. However, this could also depend on the rate of temp. increase.

Just tried something else. Took a heated up CPU and watched the volts as the fans brought the temp down. They also had a decrease rate of .12.

Had to do another one. THis time I used a very powerful heat gun to increase the temps. The volts climbed to rapidly for me to judge the rate. I shut off the heat at a little over 10V. The fans where able to bring them temp back down very fast. Again at a rate of .12.

[MDA]

Video is done and I will get it posted tonight.

[MDA]

I got the video sized down from 166meg to 46. Now I just need to find a host.

[xboxexpert]

I'd like for you all to take a look at this



Yea thats my sexy voice...but seriously now...notice that he temps had to read well over 140F for the fans to take off like a rocket engine.  Something to think about...

[xboxexpert]

Could just be a busted Dynamic Fan control..