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[BCfosheezy]

I have been involved in a few discussions with people who claim the fan speed in the Xbox 360 is dynamically controlled. I did some testing shortly after launch and found that while the fans start out at 12v during boot, they instantly drop to 5.44vdc and no matter how warm the components get after that the voltage is never adjusted. To test this I simply put my DMM probes on the fan header.

 

Here's my setup: (Click images for larger version.

and with this reading the xbox was displaying the dash as a control. The meter did not fluxuate sitting idle for 3 minutes. (5.44v)

 



 

Next I fired up the Saint's Row demo and bitch-slapped as many people as I could for a while and ran trying to get as many as I could behind me. We ran by a police officer and he started shooting them and that's where I took the pictures.

 



 

The reading at this point:



 

A few minutes later:




Reading:



 

In short, the xbox 360 has the capability to dynamically control it's fans, but it doesn't.... at least not based on temperature.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(xzenor @ Nov 16 2006, 08:48 PM)

I've noticed this too.........in demo's. Although, try a real game (as in a disk) and test the voltage.

I did. It was the same in battle for middle earth II. It was the same in COD2. All in all, it wouldn't matter whether it was a demo or not. That doesn't even make sense. It's graphicly intensive code that heats up the components. If it's thermally controlled it will speed them up if the chips get hot..... not just because you've loaded a demo or an official game disc.

Edit: I should note that I could not touch the gpu heatsink for more than 3 seconds it was so hot. (and I have an extremely high heat tolerance.)

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(RiPpN-N-TrIppN @ Nov 16 2006, 09:12 PM)

yeh was a good idea but you really should of tested it using a real game
instead of a demo
Rip

I did, but it also really doesn't make any sense that it would be any different. It's still a graphically intensive game. If it can thermally control the fans then it will when the components get hot. They did, it didn't.... end of story. Confirm it yourselves if you want.


Edit: You guys are confused on the noise being emitted by the console. Use your brains for a second... what's the difference between having a game in and NOT having a game in? The DRIVE is spinning. That's where the noise is coming from.

[Geirskogul]

You need to put some alligator clips (or temporarily solder on some wires) onto the fan headers, and then put the case back together.  I've seen the fans go up to 7 volts, and then 12.  

Try Oblivion, with the case on.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(Geirskogul @ Nov 16 2006, 10:15 PM)

You need to put some alligator clips (or temporarily solder on some wires) onto the fan headers, and then put the case back together. I've seen the fans go up to 7 volts, and then 12.

Try Oblivion, with the case on.

 

Why are you guys refusing to believe the facts put before you? If I put the case back on, it will run COOLER!!!

 

If you've seen the voltage go up to 7 and 12 volts then let's see your pictures. Let's see some proof instead of your claims.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(tnbigdawg @ Nov 17 2006, 12:26 AM)

I agree with you. It wouldn't matter if it was a demo or not, the point is that BCfosheezy figured out that the 360 is NOT DYNAMICALLY CONTROLLED(It probably cost to much for MS to implement anyways; every penny counts).

The test was to see if there was any voltage change as the temperatures went up and thus taking off the case was the way to go.

 Thank you

[MDA]

Remove the air duct and you will see that the volts climb up to 11.75. No need for games or cases.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(ydgmms @ Nov 17 2006, 11:40 AM)

but not having the case on adds for much needed ventilation, which cools the components thus the fan doesn't get as high as it could.

Do what the other person said and try it with the case on.

You want to be all scientific, but your not covering all possible cases.

No, it takes away from it. Having the case on controlls the airflow so it goes across the correct components. Having the case off, there is no controlled airflow so the console run HOTTER. You have this whole thing backwards. Anyone who knows anything about airflow will tell you that you're misguided.

QUOTE(MDA @ Nov 17 2006, 11:53 AM)

Remove the air duct and you will see that the volts climb up to 11.75. No need for games or cases.

That's not dynamic control. The console will shut off and the fans will go to 12v just like in the original xbox. I'm not going to kill my console to do that since all I set out to prove or disprove was dynamic fan control.

This would mean that as the chips heat up the fan speeds up. I had the chips heating up. The fans never sped up.



The myth is busted... now get over it.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(MDA @ Nov 17 2006, 12:59 PM)

First off, it won't kill your console. At the most you will get a 0012 error. Cool down the system and will start right back up.

As for what I was saying.. With no air flow to the heatsinks the fan voltafe will start to step up. It does not jump right to 11.75. It will increment its way up until the system can no longer take the heat. Then the thermal protection kicks and it shuts down rather then fry the chip.

Think about this. Your heatsinks are clean and have no dust causing blockage. Once a system has started to collect dust and blockage occurs, the temps will obviously rise higher then yours did. M$ has to account for this as not every customer is going to clean out the dust bunnies.

Oh man. You're really reaching here. At what temperature does the core have to reach before it starts stepping up? I'm not going to eliminate the airflow from my heatsinks and risk hurting my console. Dynamic fan control speeds the fans up when the console heats up. It didn't do that. No matter what you say to do you've already been proven wrong. I'm not going to kill my console because you say so. I've PROVEN that it does not have dynamic fan control and if you want to say otherwise you should PROVE it rather than make claims that you can't prove. Kill YOUR console. I'm not going to.


Edit: Take a look at my first pic. There's dust on the cpu heatsink that is clearly visible due to my fingerprints wiping some dust off. It's a launch console. Also, MS doesn't care about dust. If they did they would have to offer a service plan. Speeding fans up will cause the dust to collect faster. It will compound the problems.

[MDA]

I wish I had a thermal probe here at work. That would make this alot easier.

If I can get a picture of a meter showing more then 5 volts will that convince you?

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(MDA @ Nov 17 2006, 01:35 PM)

I wish I had a thermal probe here at work. That would make this alot easier.

If I can get a picture of a meter showing more then 5 volts will that convince you?

Well no actually. After the testing I've done (much more in-depth than posted here) you're not going to convince me until I have reproduced the results myself. If you can show that the fan speed is regulated based on temps of the cpu and/or gpu then I will do some testing. Since my testing included a thermal probe on another meter (I don't really trust it so I didn't report it, this is also why I asked what temp the fans are stepped up at.) and another meter reading the voltage while insulating the heatsinks in various, controlled ways. The fans NEVER fluxuated . I'm convinced that once the xbox goes into protection mode the fan will kick up. It did that on the original console.



Yes do not argue further without some irrefutable proof. It grows tiresome with people slinging claims in the face of reason.

[ydgmms]

edit: alright then.

[tnbigdawg]

QUOTE(xboxexpert @ Nov 17 2006, 12:23 PM)

BCfosheezy is absolutely correct in his tests/results.  I've known this for a while since the 360 pumps out heat that would only been compared to a RSX Turbo while its spooling yet the fans stay at low rpms.  I'm not going to get into an argument with any one person in this post but most of you guys are incorrect and are just looking for an argument which is not going to happen.  

-xboxexpert

P.S - I'd just like to add that be it a Demo or a Real game...It doesn't really make a difference.

Thank you for backing. I guess people are not understanding and can't get into their heads why the tests were conducted the way it was, and why it doesn't matter if he used a demo or not and case on or not.

The term DYNAMICALLY controlled would mean that the fans would fluctuate depending on temps, in which BC has tested not to be the case with the 360.


Now, I don't know if MS claimed the 360 to have dynamically controlled cooling or not.... Or was this claim made by fanboys?

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(tnbigdawg @ Nov 17 2006, 03:03 PM)

Thank you for backing. I guess people are not understanding and can't get into their heads why the tests were conducted the way it was, and why it doesn't matter if he used a demo or not and case on or not.

The term DYNAMICALLY controlled would mean that the fans would fluctuate depending on temps, in which BC has tested not to be the case with the 360.


Now, I don't know if MS claimed the 360 to have dynamically controlled cooling or not.... Or was this claim made by fanboys?

Well I can't find the thread/s. I don't even remember who I was discussing this with. He swore up and down that the fans were thermally controlled and provided a link to MS's website (that I admittedly did not follow) and posted a quote from it that boasted thermally controlled fans. I wish I could find all of that. It was either in 360 general chat or general hardware chat and the title was something like "xbox 360 excessive noise" or something like that. It was from the past 2-5 months. I have had so much going on at work and arguing so much in pnr that I forgot when, where, and who.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(MDA @ Nov 17 2006, 03:40 PM)

I have pix and will post them later tonight. Using a towel to cover the heat sinks the voltage gradually went to almost 7 volts. When the towel was removed, it slowly returned 5.45.

Sounds good. I'm anxiously awaiting this. Would you mind getting everything in one shot? This way nobody has to go back and forth. I would like to see:

 

1. Your set up. (Your measuring equipment and xbox. All wires clearly visible with no area for someone to claim any kind of deception.)

2. A control that shows what your fan voltage is at idle.

3. The variable (insulator over heatsink). Probes have to still clearly be visible connected to the fan header in the same spot and all wires must be clearly visible.

 

If all of the above things are met with no room for deceptive practices and you still get your results, you will then have a special xbox that nobody else has . I for one insulated my heatsink for a short duration and the fans stayed steady so if yours rise you're either lying or you have a one of a kind 360.