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[nightwulf28]

QUOTE(BasicAir @ May 22 2006, 08:22 PM)

Settle down people, come on now.

I'm not happy about them saying the HD-DVD addon, FOR NOW MS hasn't made an HDMI cable for it, but I'm not surprised and I stress the fact that this is just the decision as of RIGHT NOW.

Besides, I'm an A/V enthusiast and always have been, done years of advanced tech support for DirecTV about HTDV signals and troubleshooting and such, and so on and so forth, and I can tell you that a 720P movie or a 1080i movie on a good component cable (YPbPr/YCbCr) such as the Monster component gold-plated component cable for the 360 versus that of a potential HDMI cable you wouldn't notice much of a difference at all.

Even at 1080P, when HD-DVD starts releasing movies in 1080P (for now they still aren't, and I haven't researched WHY they don't want to yet, but they just haven't yet even though they can and have even said it would be easilly done), you won't notice hardly much of a difference at all.

Let's take the Xbox 360 component cables that come with it, though -- they are not high quality. Since every video cable except DVI and HDMI are analog cables, the higher-quality the cable is the better your picture will be. This means if I put back on my 360 component cables made by MS that came with my 360 and took off my Monster ones, sure, I'd notice a slight quality downgrade. Would it be much? No, and as a matter of fact the average person, especially adults, wouldn't tell hardly any difference even if you put two 360's side by side with one running the stock component cables and the other the Monster component cables.

Being such a big A/V enthusiast, however, I can tell the difference with my Monster component 360 cables because I look for differences and such. To me, the minor difference is worth the money, but to others it's not.

Now let's say you have one of the standalone Toshiba HD-DVD standalone units already (whether it's the $500 or $700 model, it doesn't matter). Let's say you have two of them and two of the same 720P native television as well and are playing the same HD-DVD movie in each player and have both televisions, let's say 50", side-by-side. Let us say that one of them is running to the same model TV the best component cables on the market (again, which is analog) and the other is running HDMI (same as DVI but also carries a DD5.1 signal with it, too - and - this is not analog, but digital as mentioned earlier).

How much of a difference would you see between these two side-by-side 720P TV's? It would be minimal. I've done tests like this (not with 1080P -- yet) but with every other resolution so I know what I'm talking about. The same would go for 1080i. The difference, if estimated, would be something well under a 10% quality difference in the component cables.

Let's say you have cheaper component cables, though. Ahhhh.... now you'll notice maybe up to a 10% difference or so. Why? Again, it's as simple as this: Component cables are analog and not digital. Even if you had the cheapest HDMI cable on the market and compare it to the most expensive HDMI cable on the market, you won't see a difference in quality and the same goes for DVI; why? They're digital-signal carrying cables, not analog like every other cable type.

This just goes to show many things come in to play. Even other things such as if the HDTV set is plasma, DLP, projection, or LCD... it all makes a difference, though it's minimal.

So what am I trying to get at? Sure an HDMI cable to my 50" DLP from the new HD-DVD addon when it comes out would provide a better picture than the component cables, but not by much at all - but definately more if you have cheap component cables like the ones that came with the 360.

Also let's not get off the point of the subject -- There is still a very good chance that MS will release a HDMI cable down the road (if it's possible somehow since the 360 does all the processing -- I don't personally know).

High-quality, gold-plated component cables versus cheapo-deapo ones like what comes with the 360 will show a better picture and the 24 karat gold ones by Monster really surprised me with the quality difference on the 360 and that's saying a lot since given all my previous experiments comparing this and that, this cable, that cable, this resolution, that resolution, this TV, that TV -- I expected to notice a difference, sure, but the Monster 360 component cables give me such a nicer picture than the MS component cables, and again -- when and if I get (if I can) an HDMI cable for my HD-DVD addon for my 360, I guarantee you there won't be much of a difference -- seriously. You would honestly have to put it side by side with another, replica setup to really see the difference and again I would say it'd be under 10% in quality which is hardly noticable, anyway.

MY BOTTOM LINE: It shouldn't make much of a difference AND, if MS can do it, they WILL come out with an HDMI cable for the drive because they just aren't that stupid NOT to.

God Bless and thanks for your time.
I know I'll get some people disagreeing but hey, I don't care -- I have the hands on experience and have done side-by-sides too many times to count and I know I haven't said anything untruthful in this entire post.

-Air (see sig for contact)

great write up, really good.  Question.  Where did you buy your monster 360 cables?

[BasicAir]

QUOTE(Lizard King @ May 23 2006, 01:32 AM)

Now we have Blue Ray and HD Dvd. I think consumers are a bit more tech savvy, and with a few format wars still fresh, and DVD quality still acceptable for the masses, I'm guessing that most people will wait to see either a prominent winner, or a dual format player. I know I am. Format Wars only hurt consumers.

I could comment on most all of your post but this is the only thing I wanted to comment on. I won't go all wild with an essay-length post again so bare with me, people.

I just want to say that bar-none, HD-DVD has every technical reason to win the format war. HD-DVD is better than Blu-Ray in every catagory of great importance, really, except that it's maximum capacity is 30GB whild B-R is 50GB. With this being the case, HD-DVD has nothing to worry about, really. A 2.5 hour long 720P movie with DD5.1 audio is around 10-12 GB and the same goes for if it was in 1080i. And no, unfortunately Blu-Ray fans, even 1080P movies will be on HD-DVD when they decide to release them in 1080P and it will still have around 1/2 of the 30GB disc at least for extras, etc, so the difference of 30GB versus 50GB really amounts to: nothing significant at all.

Also, for the record, I was a Blu-Ray fan before probably any of the people on this board ever heard of it. I've known about it coming out since many years ago when even on google a search for Blu-Ray would turn up only 2 hits, both to the same article, and no -- I am not exaggerating. I'm not bragging, but just trying to say that I was all hyped up about it and couldn't wait for years to come so I could buy one.

Then a year or two later I started to hear of HD-DVD.... My immediate reaction was "come on, Blu-Ray is already being developed; why are other companies pushing for another format to compete with Blu-Ray?"

To be honest, I was pissed about it because I thought what is going to happen with the war WOULD happen. Nonetheless, I looked up and researched HD-DVD and over time I began to realize how it really did have much more going for it than Blu-Ray and really is a better format. I never thought it would happen, but I jumped off the Blu-Ray bandwagon and onto the HD-DVD bandwagon.

That's all I wanted to say. This all happened about 18 months ago, so MS and Sony had no say in my decision on which format was better and would win the war and get my personal support. But anyway, keep in mind that Holographic discs are in early development that can hold 100 GB on a single layer, 300 GB triple-layered.... THAT my friends, will be the future I'd imagine.

QUOTE(nightwulf28 @ May 23 2006, 02:33 AM)

great write up, really good.  Question.  Where did you buy your monster 360 cables?

Locally, every store was sold out so I got it off the old trusty source we all know and love..... eBay. LOL

[Lizard King]

QUOTE(BasicAir @ May 22 2006, 09:40 PM)

I just want to say that bar-none, HD-DVD has every technical reason to win the format war. HD-DVD is better than Blu-Ray in every catagory of great importance, really, except that it's maximum capacity is 30GB whild B-R is 50GB.

...and unfortunatly, customers can qualtify 50GB as being best. With the proliferation of iPods and the like, people are able to grasp what 50GB can contain. It is not uncommon for people to have a legitimate 40GB digital music library. It's a number people can understand. My scanner is 300x300, so that means a 1200x1200 scanner is better, right? Best doesn't always win. Sony's been losing ground on their proprietary formats, but I'm curious to see how it turns out.

I will not pick sides, as it doesn't matter until the dust settles. Who cares if HD is technically best if Blue Ray wins?

Even if a HDMI/DVI cable comes out, isn't the 360 only capable of an analog signal? So even with the HDMI/DVI cable that may or may not come out, the ICT (if enabled) will still not work, right?

[heraldoffailure]

QUOTE(Lizard King @ May 23 2006, 03:22 AM)

...and unfortunatly, customers can qualtify 50GB as being best. With the proliferation of iPods and the like, people are able to grasp what 50GB can contain. It is not uncommon for people to have a legitimate 40GB digital music library. It's a number people can understand. My scanner is 300x300, so that means a 1200x1200 scanner is better, right? Best doesn't always win. Sony's been losing ground on their proprietary formats, but I'm curious to see how it turns out.

I will not pick sides, as it doesn't matter until the dust settles. Who cares if HD is technically best if Blue Ray wins?

Even if a HDMI/DVI cable comes out, isn't the 360 only capable of an analog signal? So even with the HDMI/DVI cable that may or may not come out, the ICT (if enabled) will still not work, right?

Exactly, just look at Betamax and VHS, same war, quality over capacity, and we all know who won.  It came down to who could contain an entire feature length film.  It wasn't who performed better, it was can my favorite movie be bought on one peice of media.

[fahrenheit]

For the adopters of this device, the ICT is like a noose around their necks waiting to be tightened. After feeding the consumer caviar (720p/1080i), are they then to be expected to chow down on catfood in the form of 540p?

Also, I won't be in the least bit surprised if MS make this little drive so damn loud, that no one will want to play a movie in it no matter how pretty they look. But one thing in their favour is that the public at large are generally a bunch of muppets and will probably buy in if the price is right.

[gg22mm]

QUOTE(Jman232 @ May 22 2006, 09:33 PM)

I get full HDTV (1080i) programming from my cable provider. I have a TV, which supports both HDMI and Component cables. I went and bought an HDMI cable and couldn't tell a difference between the two in 480, 720, and 1080. $60 waste if you ask me. Oh and the difference between HDMI and DVI is the connector of course and HDMI has a sound signal. But I use optical for my sound on my xbox1, 360, and digital HD set top box (cable) so big deal. They also make cables and connectors for transition between HDMI and DVI. As far as I know the signal on the component is digital. I use a single RCA cable (orange) for digital sound on my DVD player. Xbox1 supports up to 1080i(Entr Mtrx1 is the only game I know that plays in 1080), Xbox 360 also with a lot more games in 1080 (look at the back of the game box to see which formats the game supports). Also, correct me if I am wrong, but aren't we watching DVD's at 720 right now?
 SD-480 ?D-720 (I think it's ED) and HD-1080 are the resolutions- horizontal pixels that is the standard for digital television. Please correct me if I have any of my info incorrect and please cite your reference. Thanks and I don't really see what the big deal is. The cable and video switch is way cheaper for component anyway. DVD wars, and cable wars in the backround... Just have to wait it out to see who wins. I don't want a player that turns out to be like the old beta-VHS or the video disks (early 80's with the guts that stay inside the player).

My friend:
480i SD
480p ED - Current Dvd's max res.
720p-1080i - HD
1080p - Not available sources yet for tv
No references to cite. Take it or leave it

[Jman232]

QUOTE(BasicAir @ May 22 2006, 07:40 PM)

I just want to say that bar-none, HD-DVD has every technical reason to win the format war. HD-DVD is better than Blu-Ray in every catagory of great importance, really, except that it's maximum capacity is 30GB whild B-R is 50GB. With this being the case, HD-DVD has nothing to worry about, really. A 2.5 hour long 720P movie with DD5.1 audio is around 10-12 GB and the same goes for if it was in 1080i. And no, unfortunately Blu-Ray fans, even 1080P movies will be on HD-DVD when they decide to release them in 1080P and it will still have around 1/2 of the 30GB disc at least for extras, etc, so the difference of 30GB versus 50GB really amounts to: nothing significant at all.

I have a quick question...
I am currently streaming 1080i from my Motorolla 6800 cable box to my Mac for recording via firewire. Its video format is m2t. I am interested in buying a burner (for the comp) and a player (for the TV)  so I can playback in my entertainment room. Right now I am getting two hours of video in about 12.5 gigs. I can't get playback on anything larger than 640x352 as an mp4 (after transcoding) on XBMC so I am out of luck there as far as I know. I saw they have a blue ray VAIO setup on the Sony website. I imagine it will end up being cheaper in the end buying an HD burner up along with the 360 player. The blueray will have more space for my purpose, but will it have any difference in playback? I would like to also see what video formats the players will support (most likely one at first). I imagine I will get some loss after after streaming to transcoding (to get it playing in the entertainment room) to playback. I guess it will come down to price and what the final standard will be. I just don't know if I should wait it out or not.
BTW DVRs run out of space- that's why I wan't to do this-if anyone was wondering.
Thanks, Basic Air

[JoBlo69]

right now we have...

xbox 360 core --- no hdd, wired controller, composite cable $299

xbox 360 Preimium --- 20 GB hdd, wireless controller, headset, component cable $399



In the future, about a year i think....

xbox 360 (whatever) --- 100 GB hdd, built in HD-DVD with HDMI support $599??


What do you guys think???  

[mgamer20o0]

BasicAir i think that the big deal about this isnt about how better hdmi or component look. i think the big deal is with the protection. just cuz they say there is some agreement doesnt mean it will follow though. for me i just dont care. i am fine with dvds. ill get me a upconversion dvd player some time and that will hold me over for some time.

[izeman]

QUOTE(Rebelatheart @ May 23 2006, 01:03 AM)

....

Since they havent said "yes, we can make a hdmi cable for the 360 as the 360 supports it, but we wont release it until it makes sense", then Id buy it. But since they cant guarantee that they'll make one, and instead are beating around the bush talking all that mumbo jumbo that these companies like to do when they dont wanna admit something, Im passing unless its $99 like i said.

....

you forgot to mention that hdmi ALREADY would make sense! if they sell a hdmi adapter cable i'll be the first to buy one. digital image transfer from the box to the plasma display is (most of the times) ways better than analogue signals.

just my 2c
ize|man

[izeman]

just forgot to mention one thing:

here in german speaking europe they just launched the first channels broadcasting HDTV. and guess what: high res playback is limited to HDMI ONLY!! there is NO high res video when you connect your display with YUV (it's downscaled to ED).

so now guess what will happen with all those movies to be released on blue ray or hd-hvd. correct: exactly the same ...

so if there is no way of getting an hdmi output for my 360 -> forget it

regards ize|man

[trey85stang]

Well, I will not be buying this accessory.  I will get a standalone player when the price lowers a bit.  Ill buy in at $250-300.

[Martinchris23]

QUOTE(sicknasty413 @ May 23 2006, 03:31 AM)

Isnt ps3 having dual hdmi ports.. or did they change that? i remember them mentioning it a while back.. ehh idk

Sony have done the usual and sold a 'flying car'.

The core version will have analog output only, with the premium having only the one HDMI output.

I would be a lot more comfortable with HDMI output, although natively the 360 cannot handle anything digital save the audio.

Once again I think the early adopters will suffer because of this. I'm not too worried about quality as my VGA output is pretty sweet - I watch TS HD movies through XBMC Extender which are simply stunning


For the HD-DVD addon to succeed, it would need to be sold at a VERY reasonable price. $99 would meet this perfectly. It would be affordable enough so that in a few years you wouldn't begrudge buying another HD-DVD/BluRay player where the prices would be more affordable anyway. It would also prompt more people to buy a 360. By 2010, we'll be talking about the next incarnation of Xbox (IMHO as it's a typical lifespan of a games console). Let's worry about it *then*.

[Lizard King]

QUOTE(OEM @ May 23 2006, 03:28 AM)

Monster cables are often a waste of money unless you need extra long cables. I know it's not politically correct to say it but it's true

Yeah, well.....often monster cables are sold with marketting inaccuracies - HOWEVER, there is no other quality alternative. Give me a breakout box with no cables and Ill crimp my own Canare/Belden setup.

I use Monster spades on my speaker terminals and have used a Monster Line Conditioner in the past (use a Panamax now). They do make good stuff - I wouldn't say their standard speaker cables are better than braided cat 5, but some people would. The Monster 360 cable may or may not be better than OEM - this guy feels that it is, but even so, he states the degree is very small. At least it's not worse.

[icedemon360]

I am sure by the time this protection is made mandatory, XBMC360 (or whatever it will be called) will be available. And the clever people behind it will bring back the joy to xbox users, by "some way".